How many kids have left the school? (VAT)

[limeandwater]

It's been long enough now that I think we can make a reasonable conclusion on how bad it has hurt school.

To be honest at our school I only know 3 pupils that have left because of the VAT so not as bad as many feared.

Still heartbreaking for the kids though.

@SALaw Your beliefs are correct regarding few independent school closures.

I posted the reports and data upthread, but hey other PP’s don’t let statistics and accurate data get in the way of the political blame game. Just ignore the facts.

Yes, I did know that. I wouldn’t support a 20% tax on state school children either.

Education definitely gives children an advantage, having independent options means a better chance of getting the best for a particular child. Nobody would go for it with a Labour government, but I’d support widening independent options so that more children can get involved maybe through tax breaks as they do in Europe. Closing down education options because they’re too successful just seems ridiculous to me.

I’m sending my 4th child state this September. His older siblings are all at a large independent day school. The money we had put aside to send him has gone (or will go) on VAT for the older 3 that are already there. The bit of extra money we’ll have left over we will get a private tutor. I’m very sad for him that he won’t get to go to the same school as his brothers due to changed goal posts and get all the extra curriculars they have benefitted from on tap but I’m not worried about the actual education. We are in catchment for and have a place at the best state school in our city, results are good and as I said we can pay for a tutor. I don’t think you choose private school for the better quality of teacher - the school we wanted him to go to is highly selective which is why the results are good. My local Facebook page would indicate that people that historically would have got a waiting list place at said school are being told by admissions that they are not expecting as much movement this year (historically has over offered to account for parents going private). He got in so should also be able to get great results but I feel like my choice has been taken away for ideological reasons rather than because it will actually improve standards in state schools. I think if it hadn’t been brought in with quite so much speed people like me might have been able to plan around it but the extra VAT cost for 3 children is around another £15k a year which is difficult to conjure up out of no where when not expecting it.

You're such a bad faith poster.

The point is Private education grants advantages over state which we both know you know is a fact.

I think taxing any form of adult or child education is morally wrong, whether it's maths on a Tuesday morning or Theatre on a Friday night. Learning should not be taxed.

I went to a state primary and private secondary school (although not one of the super expensive ones) so I've seen both. My kids are at state schools but have had private tuition in the past to make up for poor teaching. We're lucky to live in a nice place where the state options for secondary are "good".

Personally, I think most of the "networking" type of advantages only apply to a very few schools.

Where's the line anyway? Posh private school - tax if you learn there.
Private maths lessons?
Music lessons?
Sports coaching?
Dance lessons?

All give advantages above what's provided by state schools. Should we be trying to discourage people by taxing them?

It’s not bizarre? it’s not fixed at 7% of children. It’s paid on the activity of non tax payer funded full time education not a special percentage group of ‘other’ children who you happen not to like . It’s your children, my children, everyone’s children. You’ve been wound up, convinced a group of children are responsible and basically been conned.

Gosh, my heart absolutely breaks for you poor, impoverished private school parents. You’ve really got it bad!

It’s children who went to the schools, not adults.

See this? This is just rude. We're talking about children's education being disrupted and teachers and other school staff losing their jobs. Nobody should be celebrating that.

No, the sense of entitlement of people like you is what’s shocking. Get a grip.

I'm not wound up at all.

Entitlement? For believing that education shouldn't be taxed however it's provided? Nope. As I say, my kids are at state school. The fact that other people choose to use private schools does not concern me.

The entitlement would be those who believe they are entitled to tax children’s education

No, the vat is on private school fees (and boarding services I believe ) not sure what point you are trying to make there is no vat on children’s education.

just the luxury £6000+ a term that the uber wealthy afford so tarquin doesn’t have to mix with oiks

Lovely.

I have two kids in grammar schools currently (year 7 and year 12). There are definitely more from private schools than in previous years and I would know because I have 2 older kids who already finished school.
So they have displaced some kids who would have gotten grammar. The displaced ones went to better comps, so they displaced some poorer kids from better comps. That is how it works in the real world. To be honest, those who have joined grammar who were priced out or refused to continue to pay, seem quite happy with it all.
At Sixth Form, in particular, a whole lot of ex private school kids moving into best local Sixth Forms will 100 per cent be taking places from state school kids, including those already there if the grade requirements are lifted to accommodate more competition. And then the same kids will also get into elite unis. Not sure how this is the big equality win that people were hoping for, but it does save some parents money. If anything it probably helps the Labour Party chums who were priced out of private education to feel like there are more of their sort in state schools now.

Any chance of a link to those court documents you mentioned earlier?

The music lessons in particular are a complete joke! So we do not pay VAT on our flute teacher visiting a grammar school but my friend is having to pay VAT on her child’s flute lessons, simply because the private school decided to give the flute teacher proper employment protection and more of a fixed salary. And now my friend is being penalised for it. Absolutely ludicrous to incentivise the private school to unemploy the flute teacher!

Exactly right

There are loads of people in state education who are richer and higher income households than some in private schools.
So my friend has one kid, we have 4. So we cannot afford private education because we have 4. However, we have a higher household income.
She is now paying £45 for a 30 minute flute lesson and I am paying £23 for the exact same thing, with the same teacher. It is completely ridiculous.

Here is a link to HMRC describing the tax on ‘education and vocational training’ for children: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-education-and-vocational-training-notice-70130

No we’re not, that’s hyperbolic .

the biggest cause of schools closing is pupil numbers dropping.

if a school closed because of vat on school fees they were a failing school.

why do I picture the simpsons lady screaming won’t someone please think of the children!

every tax and spend decision has winners and losers. For once it is the rich. Don’t make out that it’s hurting everyone or even the majority.

one of my mates says he has cut back on golf because of the increase. Just imagine!

I agree.

There are some people who couldn’t afford private school 30 years ago and would not be able to afford it today, either.

So, the logic of people who could afford it before the VAT increase is that it’s not fair because they can’t afford it any more.

But it was fair before, when you could afford it but others couldn’t? It’s hypocritical.

Yep, sorry. https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/ALR-and-others-v-Chancellor-of-the-Exchequer-private-schools-VAT-judgment.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

They were forced to admit that they had been advised above 10% move to state would likely render the policy break even and beyond that a net cost to tax payer. They were advised 10% is likely medium term.

Are you doctors, barristers or head teachers like your grandparents? I know many people in those professions still very easily affording private school.