Husband’s female colleague’s issue being taken very seriously.

[Sweetmarzipan]

So background. DH works in a fairly male dominated industry.

When he first started in this company he would be away fairly often. One or two nights away every 4/6 weeks. One week in April and the odd conference.

I almost always went with him if I could for no other reason than the free hotel. If there were other colleagues they would have have their spouses with them as well. We became friends with many of them and still socialise. Irrelevant to my post but we always had separate bills and we never exploited expenses and we never saw other colleagues do this either but obviously the room was the same price regardless of occupancy.

Covid came along and other ways of doing things came about so audits etc were done remotely and these trips are now few and far between.

Last week I did join him for the first time in probably 6 months. He was leaving the centre with a male colleague in his fifties and a female colleague (mid thirties but I don’t know if anyone will find ages relevant) who had joined the company around three to six months ago (DH and colleague differ on the dates).

As they left to check into hotel the female colleague asked if they were eating, but they said that they had their wives with them and the male colleague said that she was welcome to join them but she declined. We had booked a pub meal on our own.

They were all together on Friday but over the weekend she has made a complaint suggesting that I and the other colleague’s wife had deliberately tagged along as they believed she would be unprofessional and inappropriate.

An email has now gone out saying that spouses are no longer able to tag along.

Colleague was spoken to face to face and the bosses did seem apologetic. DH was on a site and saw the email and was phoned by one of the directors again with apologies.

Surely she should have been told about the culture of the company. I am really gobsmacked. Two other wives have texted me this morning and they feel the same. We had a really nice lifestyle there which is bound to have created a nice work environment.

It’s utterly bizarre! And so many people seem to be struggling with the concept of what work is for. And your point is a really good one, I would certainly be uncomfortable in a company that had the culture of inviting spouses on work trips, because as a lesbian, I tend to prefer to not refer to my wife in certain work situations as it can (and has) led to me being treated differently. I like a culture of professionalism where home is left at home and work is for work.

I mean, all this nonsense really does take the “bring your whole self to work” mantra to the extreme!

Urgh imagine having to sit there like a spare part at a wedding while your colleagues and their spouses treat a work trip like a holiday - can’t think of anything worse.

The laws would be the EHRC article 8 and the Human Rights Act 1998 (which required UK courts to interpret all law in keeping with the EHRC). This means that when the courts (any court, but mainly Employment Tribunals) rule on the reasonableness of management instructions one of the things they consider is whether such an instruction breaches the employees right to a private and family life, and if it does so then whether such instruction is proportionate and in pursuit of a legitimate aim.

Why would you be just "sitting there?" If your work is finished for the day why don't you go to the cinema, or order room service, or go shopping or whatever else catches your fancy?

I don't see why colleagues have to hang out with each other in their free time. If they want to, of course that's fine, but there's nothing wrong with saying goodbye at the end of the work day and going your own way.

And you think not allowing a spouse free accommodation on an employee’s work trip would be classed as a breach? I’ve heard it all now.

It's not your colleagues' responsibility to keep you company in your free time just because you're single. If everyone wants to have dinner together then that's lovely, but if not then as grown adults people should sort themselves out.

Banning spouses/partners doesn’t mean the colleagues will socialise though. There’s no requirement to socialise with colleagues outside work hours.
It doesn’t follow get wives banned they’ll suddenly all want to hang out together.
Both men could meet friends for dinner next month, not breaching the new no wives rule but still opting to eat with a none employee not with that colleague. She’s still eating alone unless she makes her own plans like they do.

Why would it bother you any more than the fact they have a partner when they are in the home office?

Work is done for the day just the same at home or away.

If someone’s spouse comes to the home office to meet them and go for a drink - how is that different from their spouse meeting them in the hotel bar?

This. She sounds like a professional victim of something only in her own mind . 🙄

I think taking the spouse along is pretty outdated, TBF. I used to travel a lot for work - UK and internationally. On occasion, I had a pal/my Mum join me at the end of my work trip, and we stayed on (at our own expense, obviously!) Once or twice, they were there the last night of the work week, as we were often away Sun-Sat, so we could work the full five days. They had to understand, however, that work came first, and if we had to work late, or entertain colleagues at the partner company, then that came first.
I think that a request to have someone else there, sharing the hotel room, would have been pretty looked down upon. I don't know why, but it just doesn't feel very professional to me. (Just my gut feeling.)
So, could you go meet him at the end, and pay to stay on an extra night or two?

I don’t think it’s outdated. Many people have diagnosis of autism/adhd/anxiety or health needs. Over 80% of men in 50s overweight or obese, good chance many diabetic or cpap machine users.
I suspect what will happen is staff may go down reasonable adjustments route if there is a blanket ban and one expensive occupational health report later upshot will be same that spouse can accompany.

Appreciate that my DH is senior now, but he wasn’t always and is also a qualified accountant so his work role in finance is not too dissimilar - and his work day and expectations are not really that different from when he was junior, so haven’t change: eat sleep work, repeat, get on a plane somewhere, same schedule at home/somewhere else.

A ‘work trip’ in the way many seem to perceive it here isn’t how he would describe business trips. They are visits to other offices - and are just the same work, with different regional teams, in different offices, meeting with local finance officials in each jurisdiction. The aim is usually to get F2F time with team members in each office, to build rapport, and get to know them in person rather than via zoom. I imagine senior audit staff have similar days. I was in audit myself once and it was no different, really, just substitute client for another office.

Travel, accommodation and meal budget don’t make it a ‘trip’ - they are to cover the practical expenses associated with facilitating the work being carried out.

The room costs the same whether there’s one occupant or two.

That doesn’t matter.

Why not? It means there’s no additional cost.

I think having a blanket rule that you can't socialise with someone outside of work hours or have them in your room when you are away from home on a work trip could breach that, yes.

Article 8 has curbed a lot of blanket company policies that put restrictions on how employees lead their lives outside of work hours.

There may be more of a case for a blanket ban if the company is directly contracting with the hotel itself. But harder to see how they could justify it if the employees are the ones with the contract with the hotel and just claiming expenses from the company.

Yep, and the single persons on the trip can quite legitimately pick up someone at the bar and take them back to the room - or are people suggesting that should be policed now? The company aren’t providing the room so have no say over it’s use - they are simply reimbursing the employee for the expense of having to use one on a work related trip.

Sorry, you're right, I think I was one post out!

It doesn't matter from a tax perspective, but if the company is directly contracting with the hotel it makes the hotel room the company's and so potentially gives them more right to dictate what is allowed and what isn't.

That's your choice though, and one you're free to make. Others fortunately work in industries where no prejudice would arise. One of the guys DH works with brought both the men he was in a thrupple with along for a few days jolly.

I have not read all of the posts but will.

Husband and male colleague have asked for a meeting on Thursday. They want to stress how insulted they are by what colleague said. They would also like to know how the directors responded to the complaint e.g. did they tell her that it was common practice for partners to sometimes accompany staff.

Male colleague was seen face to face yesterday and was asked if anything had been said that could be misconstrued and the answer was absolutely not. He was told that they were concerned about what her next move would be. Husband was out of the office and he pleas phoned.

An email was sent to everyone detailing the change of policy but not the reason behind it.

Only husband and the male colleague know.

I do not know the sexuality of the woman or whether she has a relationship. She is younger than my husband and colleague but is not junior to them. She has exactly the same job as husband and is on the same level as both of them.

Posters have commented about trips to the US, Asia etc. I am talking about trips in this country with Belfast being the furthest he goes. Posters will think I am sad but we are often talking about a Travelodge on a roundabout next to a lorry park but it’s a break! It is essentially him working in a different location rather than having to schmooze clients.

Business established in the 1970s and has excellent staff retention. While it is primarily male dominated one of DH’s former report was a a woman and I have a good memory of them working and her husband taking me to a driving range.

In the past there were many trips but there are fewer now due to a refocus and Covid being a catalyst for technology allowing some things to become remotely,

I have my own job and two children. I am not a Stepford wife. I have no jealousy and my DH has a female assistant who has been away with him sometimes when I wasn’t there. I imagine most people behave professionally like I do.

I and the other spouses have never compromised the work of our spouses and our presence has never incurred cost to the company.

God I love it when people make blanket statements like “no prejudice would arise”. Just like sexism no longer exists and racism is a thing of the past, right?

You will notice I wasn't talking about the employees.

In fact at not point have I really mentioned them. It's (nearly) all the other posters who are obsessed.

I was pointing things out from a company viewpoint. Which is very relevant as companies have repeatedly been found liable for things that happen when staff are out of the office on a business trip. Having had to give evidence in such a situation a few years ago, I am well aware of the jeopardy for companies.

Thanks for coming back and updating Op.
Are they in a union? It may be worth getting some advice as undercurrent seems to be she is alleging they have said or done something inappropriate.
Given tangent thread had gone on do you know if he books room and claims back or company books 3 rooms in the travel lodge for them all.

I’m am curious OP, with two kids & a job why would you want to go to a Travellodge on a roundabout in the UK every 4-6 weeks?