"We can't justify a £52 lunch" - AIBU to think you didn't need to?

[PropitiousJump]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg3g11z6d8o

I found this article irritating. Middle earning families complaining they can't afford a day out, in part because of the expense of eating lunch and dinner out. A family of four in both cases.

I completely agree it's got expensive to eat out, but have they never heard of taking your own sandwiches?

And if you look at what they've eaten, they've ordered a lot of extras that have bumped up the bill.

Costa family - £52 lunch for four. If they could have done without an overpriced bag of crisps on top of their mains, and not had puddings (this was lunch, not dinner) they could have got the bill down to a more reasonable £40ish - a tenner each.

Pizza Express family - £174 dinner for four. If they cut out the starter and side orders and the adults had soft drinks instead of alcohol, they could have got the bill down to approx £109 for soft drinks, mains and a dessert each.

This isn't saying they are eating too much - it's not a diet-bashing thread - but common sense says that if you are eating in a chain place on a day out and trying to keep costs down, you don't order loads of extras and alcohol. Have a drink and a snack at home if you're still hungry. Save all the extras for an 'occasion' where eating out is the focus of the event and you're going somewhere special, not fuelling up in a chain restaurant.

AIBU?

How does that answer my question? What do people do for 'low level' employment if we are no longer an industrial society and the service industry goes and they do not have the capacity to be a tradesperson or temperament to be a carer? Shelf stacking will be obsolete when everyone eventually moves to online ordering.

I said Europe and I’m talking about in coffee shops not the actually supermarket shopping 😉

Did I read it correctly that one family had a £55k gross income? That's not a lot if you want to spend £50 on a sandwich lunch.

Do you see many ploughmen these days? Swineherds? Wet nurses? Match girls? Lamplighters? When we build a road do we employ hundreds of navvies with picks or a few people with some big machines? For good or ill the world turns and employment opportunities do not remain the same.

But to answer your question, there's no suggestion that all "low level" employment will disappear. Some jobs will become scarcer, and new ones will arise. There weren't hoards of Deliveroo or Amazon drivers around 30 years ago, they arose due to changing circumstances.

Its just over the amount that 2 people working full time on NMW would have so I have no idea why people on this thread keep going on about middle or high earners and how none of them can afford treats and it should be expected on middle or high incomes.

I'm a bit of a tightwad. However, I recognise that if everyone behaved like me with their consumer spending then the economy would really take a hit.

We can spend 40 pages reminiscing about crusty rolls and flasks of lemon squash and picking apart some poor sods' Costa receipts or we can accept that general point that if people have less disposable income, if people's wages are stagnating and it becomes more expensive to hire people and keep a business open, then the macroeconomic situation might be a bit pants actually and not a return to simpler, worthier living.

And for the record, I think it's disastrous that we've ended up with a service rather than a manufacturing economy & recognise that productivity has been shot to pieces since 2008. But I really can't blame people for noticing that their money doesn't go as far and not particularly enjoying that fact.

What a great idea - he can earn a part time wage and give even more of his time for free. You're very, very bright, eh 🙂

A mixed view from me
my dh and I earn well but when the kids were younger there were an awful lot of picnics and byo. Would never have spent all that equivalent and I am always working on discounts etc

go back even further and there were very few meals out for everyone

but otoh and many have said the lack of demand from not being affordable is and will be damaging hospitality industry and impact jobs, this is a sector smashed by covid, then the COL crisis from the Ukraine war. Now facing further impacts on their pricing from min wages, ni, business rates and now further fuel hikes

its a shitshow

What has that got to do with an Internet forum?

I watched panarama programne yesterday and the family probably only ordered so much food because the bbc was paying ! I bet that normally they wouldn’t have sides or the ice cream ( the presenter pointed out that the food was being paid for)
However, the interviews with the actual business owners was scary. We became a service industry country in the 80s and 90s that is going the same way as manufacturing went. This isn’t good at all.
My parents didn’t even want to pay for a tea when we went out to the shops and we never had a night out or any treats , it seems it will go back to those days and more places will close down.
With the cost of utilities going up , most people won’t even be able to afford much more than just paying to stay warm indoors , let alone a day out.

You’re basically saying that you can’t afford to have them!

You have a nearly adult child and have no need to not be working. Having only one person working and paying tax is always worse for household expenses. And can we stop holding up NHS workers as some kind of sainthood. Many,many people across all sectors are paid a lot less and work just as hard with unpaid hours. I’m not sure what the relevance of the NHS is to this thread.

Obviously things evolve but always before there was a new alternative for that level of job. Delivery driving is one example sure ..if you can afford yo get your license and insure a car. What else? The volume of that kind of job is decreasing...supermarket self checkouts, more and more automation in factories etc. I just cant see what will replace tje service industry jobs that replaced the manufacturing ones.

So we build an economy on chicken shops, chain coffee shops and nail bars- okaaaay.

@JasmineMac I think it shows how just how expensive everything has got - in the 80s/90s, a consultant's wife would have been a SAHM, with a big house and private school for the kids. Even people who are well off are feeling the pinch. The cost of living has accelerated since Covid. 16 years ago, life was much more affordable. DH probably has similar wage and I also need to work, my kids are primary age and it would be getting tight without it.

@H0sta Think back to the 80s/90s - you wouldn't have needed two wages back then, if one was a FT professional role, especially clinical.

@pucelleauxblanchesmains I'm pretty careful, and also recognise if everyone was, it's not great for the economy. I still spend sometimes, I took the kids out and we had a picnic for lunch and then bought cakes in the cafe later.

You don’t need two wages now with a clinical role like that!!! You just don’t. Many live comfortably on much less.

Poster in that post is living beyond her means and either needs to get a job or cut back.

Because that's the whole point the article under discussion is making. It's not 'people on min wage' can't afford days out, or 'people on benefits can't afford days out' - it's specifically 'middle earners can't afford days out'. The headline is: We can't justify a £52 lunch: Middle income families cut back on fun as prices rise.

My point was that they don't have to 'cut back on fun' - they just have to stop ordering silly amounts of food at chain restaurants. It seems to be a recent phenomenon that a 'day out' has to include a lunch with dessert or an evening meal with multiple sides and alcohol. If you don't want to take your own food, OK, but just order something basic at the cafe to keep you going.

I am drawing a distinction between getting something to eat as 'fuel' on a day out, and 'going out to eat' as a treat, e.g. birthday - I am absolutely not suggesting on the latter that you have a single main and tap water. If the article had been specifically about restaurant prices, that's another discussion. But the thrust of the article was having to 'cut back on fun' and fun, in my book, doesn't mean you have to have cookies at £3 each at Costa, or polenta chips and truffle bread in addition to your Pizza Express pizza, after you've already had the fun of a trip to Sea Life.

The people I know who are consultants all have stay at home wives. They all live in nice houses, have nice holidays. None of the DC go to private schools though. My heart is breaking for those who are "feeling the pinch" and can't afford private schools. Will no one think of the children?!

That is possibly case in any part of the country apart from London.

you would not have that lifestyle in a nice part of London with a single wage.

but it all depends what you mean by nice.

Maybe the wife could take in some ironing? By nice life I mean they live in a nice area and go on a nice summer holiday. None of the consultants I know of are flash, they do not look wealthy and drive fairly standard cars. They all enjoy outdoor pursuits as a family, so instead of Sea Life they go cycling, sea swimming, walking at the weekends. I hope and pray they can afford a Costa lunch every so often!

This thread deteriorated. All people who earn above min wage are spendthrift, selfish and deluded. Anyone who has ever bought a Costa is walking around thinking they’re Kim Kardashian. If you’re not working full time plus overtime you’ve only yourself to blame if you haven’t any money but equally if you spend that money on anything other than the bare necessities to keep alive you are a terrible human being. Yawn. Also you’re probably fat if you eat food if you didn’t make it yourself. And your kids are spoiled brats if they get a drink AND an ice cream.

People spending money is keeping the country going for now. They stop, less tax and fewer jobs. There are currently no alternatives being offered by politicians and business to grow more sustainable and wholesome industries so what do you want people to do? I personally don’t hanker for the days when my dad lost his job over and over again because industry after industry was being shut down and my mum worked 6 days a week to keep us afloat, so we couldn’t afford anything fun. I don’t want that for my dc and I don’t want it for your dc. If we can’t make things better what is the point?

I didn't suggest sainthood, or anything like it. Your comment is full of snotty presumption.

There is no other organisation in the UK as reliant on staff goodwill as the NHS. I'm only stating a fact.

The relevance is that the economy fundamentally affects the NHS.

That is not a fact it’s something you’ve made up. The fact remains many workers outside of the NHS do unpaid hours and provide staff goodwill. Also the NHS is not made up in its entirety with workers that need a sainthood.

I don’t think minimum wage workers should be begrudged their 50p pay rise because the non working wives of NHS consultants who are paid vastly more than the majority aren’t feeling as rich as they think they should be.