"We can't justify a £52 lunch" - AIBU to think you didn't need to?

[PropitiousJump]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg3g11z6d8o

I found this article irritating. Middle earning families complaining they can't afford a day out, in part because of the expense of eating lunch and dinner out. A family of four in both cases.

I completely agree it's got expensive to eat out, but have they never heard of taking your own sandwiches?

And if you look at what they've eaten, they've ordered a lot of extras that have bumped up the bill.

Costa family - £52 lunch for four. If they could have done without an overpriced bag of crisps on top of their mains, and not had puddings (this was lunch, not dinner) they could have got the bill down to a more reasonable £40ish - a tenner each.

Pizza Express family - £174 dinner for four. If they cut out the starter and side orders and the adults had soft drinks instead of alcohol, they could have got the bill down to approx £109 for soft drinks, mains and a dessert each.

This isn't saying they are eating too much - it's not a diet-bashing thread - but common sense says that if you are eating in a chain place on a day out and trying to keep costs down, you don't order loads of extras and alcohol. Have a drink and a snack at home if you're still hungry. Save all the extras for an 'occasion' where eating out is the focus of the event and you're going somewhere special, not fuelling up in a chain restaurant.

AIBU?

We’re a long way off from that. Many on a lot less than £120k aren’t crying poverty.

Yep thank you 😂

£3k childcare, £2k mortgage, then bills, food. There really isn’t much left at the end.

And this is EXACTLY my point. People really need to get out the mindset that the middle class are rich. We are absolutely not millionaires but unfortunately don’t get any government help so realistically have leftover the same as someone on half the wage would have, also with 2 children

Many on a lot less than £120k get help with childcare…

They’re not saying they can’t take their own sandwiches. They’re saying the cost of what they used to enjoy doing on a day out - including eating lunch out - has become out of their price range. They’re comparing the cost to the old cost not to the cost of taking sandwiches.

I take food almost every day out or I just skip lunch. My best friend hates doing that as lunch out is her favourite part. Horses for courses. You used to be able to get a sarnie and a cuppa for £2.

No you’re right but they also aren’t having to pay £3k in childcare costs.

Still missing the point. And it isn't why people can't afford to eat out, because people in that income bracket used to be able to afford it all. Two cars, fancy phones, Xmas Eve hampers, nails, clothes on a loop, several holidays.... all those things. AND Costa and Pizza Express.

Again. I know. You think it's vulgar and disgusting. It doesn't change the fact that money doesn't go as far as it used to.

But Pizza Express and a family trip to the Aquarium isn't Kardashian level is it..thats the point. And 55k isn't a 'very basic wage' when its well over the average. So, even taking into account the fact they went OTT in the documentary, the point still stands that a pretty ordinary seeming thing is now less achievable than it was 5/10 years ago. There's no.point talking about how we lived decades ago. So many factors have changed..dual incomes needed, dual cars due to both commuting and being time poor, tech is no longer a luxury...no it doesn't hsve to be the latest iPhone but even 2nd hand androids need to be around the £300 mark to be new enough to cope with updates. I'm an sp to teens who need a laptop each for school, so do I. One of them is coming up to driving age..fuck.knows how that'll happen. He cant get a job, he's tried. I earn just over 50k and Im not in the SE. Im not on the bones of my arse but I have debt as well as mortgage, cant afford to take the kids away at all this summer but according to some as a higher rate tax payer (just) Im rich and have broad shoulders. It's all backwards.

No one on £120k is crying poverty. They seem to be frustrated, if anything, that they KNOW they are v wealthy and so should be able to afford the luxuries they now cannot. This is very different from expecting anyone to get their tiny violin out.

Big mortgage and an expensive nursery, you could reduce both. The nursery fees at that rate are very temporary and then you’ll be loaded. Everybody has to scrimp at some point in life, it’s down to choices and even those on £120k aren’t immune. To whine at 3 years of fees at that rate is rather disingenuous.

I know few people on all sorts of wages who would expect days out like that regularly as opposed to a treat which the families in said article are moaning they have to keep it to.

We eat out all the time and COL isn't stopping us but it focuses more on local independents + the costa and lounge in my local area on a use it or lose it basis.

I'm sure the families overspent because thd bbc was paying but the point remains that moderate earners can no longer afford to eat at moderate priced restaurants.

Was in a Rudys pizza on Sunday lunch. Peak time absolutely dead. These places will shut down and jobs lost.

And this proves my point. You’d think someone earning £120k would live in a big detached house, lots of lavish holidays. Maybe that was the case 15-20 years ago but definitely not today. Without childcare we’d be comfortable but again definitely not millionaires. There are a lot of people in this situation. There are also lots of calculations that show if you earn £125k you are actually better off earning £100k.

Again the woe me’rs will reply to this I’m sure, but the middle class (key word middle, not the 1% or millionaires) shouldn’t be punished for earning money, we should not all live in poverty and hate people who have any sort of disposable income.

I watched the Panorama and it’s actually more about the rising costs of running a hospitality business and how those costs have to be passed on to the consumer

staff wages, business rates, rising costs of everything have really hit the industry hard

You’re not being punished, you’re paying for the care of children you chose to have.

I sometimes read the US press and they are seeing people eating out less there. A combination of price and a realisation that much of the food in these places is the same and is just frozen food reheated and not freshly cooked. San Francisco seems particularly badly hit, rows of empty restaurants all over. Maybe they are just ahead of a trend, but Starbucks are closing branches everywhere in the USA.

Exactly, you SHOULD be able to live a pretty lavish lifestyle on that wage, or what’s the point? I’m not saying this is the case for everyone but I have a family member who gets housing benefit, UC, child benefit etc etc and goes out more than we do!

whrn mine were little we always took lunches out. Still do sometimes if we are not sure what food may be available.

and when I was really really little I’m 55 a day out without a packed lunch was unheard of and just for posh people

Yes - watch any UK drama made before the turn of the century (police procedurals always have lots of coffee drinking)- coffee 'on the go' was a small polystyrene cup, full of either black or milky coffee - not a half-litre confection topped with whipped cream, syrup and 'sprinkles'. Even a basic black coffee now comes in a large cup as standard,

If taken out today, that’s a mortgage of about £350k in total. That wouldn’t even buy you a small house in quite a few areas of the SE. Certainly not the kind of property people seem to have in mind when they hear “£120k salary”.

So our tv licence is to pay for people ona decent wage having freebies? Just great.

How much did you have to spend on childcare for your children?

The point still stands though. Yes, they had a blow out meal because the BBC was paying the bill but people are no longer treating themselves to experiences that felt like an achievable treat just a few years ago.

We went to Pizza Express as a family last year. DH and I shared a starter and had a pizza and one drink each.....DDs both had the kids deal. Our bill was £80, almost £100 once you add a tip for a completely bog standard meal out. That's the cost of our weekly shop.

Unsurprisingly, we haven't been back since. But that doesn't do the people earning minimum wage working at Pizza Express any good when it inevitably closes down.

This is a really good point. I grew up in the 80s/90s in a working class (but mainly double income home).

We might get a Chinese takeout on a Friday, but eating out was special occasions only. And something proper fancy, like a theme park, once a year. Never went abroad for holidays.

It's so different now. The cost of living crisis is a real issue, but days out with restaurants is something everyone wants to do now, even of the reality is often overpriced and disappointing.

m husband makes me live liek this and he earns a lot

Actually do you know what’s funny, I’d recommend watching the old episodes of Wife Swap. This is my guilty pleasure but it’s eye opening actually. It was filmed in the early 2000s and lots of families on there had very average jobs yet lived in lovely detached houses and could afford nice holidays and days out. There is one episode that springs to mind of two teachers with a big new build (albeit in Yorkshire) and they had lots of days out and fun with their kids during the month.