AIBU to consider an outdoor primary over our local school?

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DS goes to a forest school at the moment , he’s nursery age. We removed him from a traditional nursery setting as he didn’t settle and was miserable. He’s absolutely thriving in pretty much every area now and most importantly to us, an incredibly happy child.

We’re starting to think about schools and we have the option of an outdoor primary school which isn’t too far from us. A lot further than our local primary but doable.

The main thing that puts me off our local school is the number of children. I know this is typical in every school but 30 kids to 1 teacher just seems crazy to me. There are 2 intakes so would be 60 in his year. He is quite reserved and doesn’t do well in large groups so I feel like he’d struggle to cope being heard with 30 children. Plus the added issues schools are facing, lack of funding, lack of SEND support etc

I also have reservations about the outdoor primary though, we’re quite a ‘normal’ family and I don’t know if it’s just a bit out there for us. I also worry as it’s not mainstream or the norm may struggle in later life, I haven’t really thought as far forward as secondary school. I know this set up is more common in some Scandinavian countries though.

Looking for some advice or opinions that I may not have thought of yet. Trying to rule it in or out as an actual option for us.

It sounds a bit nutty OP, sorry. It rained every day for over 50 days straight at the start of this year. I can’t imagine wanting my DC to sit out in that all day. How do they write and read books in the rain? I think the outdoors is great but it should be a sort of hybrid so not outside all day in all weathers. I’m an adult and wouldn’t want to sit outside in the rain, I mean it isn’t even practical- my books and laptop would get wet or even blow away! Don’t forget we also have storms with 70mph winds in the U.K. and falling trees.

You'd need to ask them that.

I guess my thought would be - is this setting my child up for the future.
Outside all day every day - great in some job situations - works well for some children.
In an office environment and therefore working with and around others - more likely so a standard school set up would likely build toward that experience..
This is just my opinion.

😂 some of the answers to this are crazy. There's going to be different opinions on curriculum and how it will prepare them for high school but talking about children freezing and branches falling on them? How do people think fully outdoor nurseries work and there's lots of them, even up here in Scotland!

100 percent I would do it if it feels like the best fit. Kids should play and be outside when they are little anyway, imo. We made a similar decision for our kids, picking a small, private alternative school where they don't learn anything formally (in the "sitting down at a desk" sense) until they are 6/7. My eldest is 9 now, all caught up and honestly were indistinguishable in skills from friends with more conventional educational backgrounds. We never assumed our kids would stay there forever, we just made the next decision - "is this a good place for this year?" No regrets. Childhood is short and it's about so much more than learning to read and write (although it turns out you can do that too!).

I’m not sure how they work but I know I side as hell wouldn’t want to work in one or to have gone to one and neither would my dc. We are an outdoorsy family but even still being out in the cold, wind and rain for long periods of time isn’t fun regardless of what clothes you are wearing. On days like that we are in and out doing the horses as quickly as possible and back inside to get cozy

Adding: one concern on this thread that feels true to me based on our experience is it IS hard to go to school away from your immediate local area. You do miss out on friends round the corner. But for us the benefits of being outside, lots of play, small class sizes, etc, massively outweigh this.

I would also add if you child has major SEN needs not all small private schools have the resources to support adequately. Some kids in these circumstances are probably better off at a large, well off private or in mainstream.

i’d visit and see what it was like. There’s some extreme reactions on this thread but everyone I know who has used a forest nursery has been delighted with it, so I wouldn’t write off a forest school for a child who is thriving at a forest nursery. It’s likely they have shelter for horrible days, not necessarily a building but some form of covered area, they will have a campfire, etc. We have a few outdoor nurseries around here in the north of Scotland that run in all weathers.

Our daughter went to a 100% outdoor nursery and absolutely thrived. You just need the appropriate clothing for winter - merino base layers, proper technical waterproofs. It had covered areas and a sheltered classroom with a log burner that was toasty too.

We faced the same choice as you and picked a pre prep with 300 acres of outdoor space, wild classrooms and woodlands. There is still indoor learning but I’d say it’s about 50/50.

The school moves to a more traditional based learning for prep but they are still outside a lot.

She;'s not talking about nursery.

She's talking about primary school.

everyone I know who has used a forest nursery has been delighted with it, so I wouldn’t write off a forest school for a child who is thriving at a forest nursery.

A setting that suits a 2/3 year old is very different to something that will help a 10 year old be ready for when they move to secondary school though.

It's so important to remember that the tiny 4 year old you send to school will very quickly become that 10 year old.

But how would it work in the older years? If it rained all day how would you write? How would you read? How would you use technology?

I agree that concerns about falling trees are not a major issue, and dc can be wrapped up warm to be outside.

Hi OP like others have said I can see how this would appeal at this age but I'm not sure how suitable it would be as they got older (thinking about my own experience).

Have you looked into other schools in your area with smaller class sizes? Our local village school has approx 18 children per class and often this includes children from out of catchment if there is space. There are approximately 100 pupils in the school. They also do plenty outdoor learning. Good luck 🍀

It sounds lovely. Obviously you could change it down the line but this is setting you up on quite an ‘alternative’ path for his education.

Everyone I met in forest school nursery all thought their children had the beginnings of SEN and a few I still know ended up on a private Montessori or similar ‘alternative’ private school.

Yes I know that, hence why I said ‘I wouldn’t write off a forest school for a child who is thriving at a forest nursery’.

Outdoor nurseries/schools have shelter. If it’s pissing rain they won’t be sitting writing on wet paper 🙄 Have they been inspected at all and can you see attainment results etc.? As if those are as they should be then they are clearly achieving the curriculum.

Exactly, you wouldn’t have a Paw Patrol birthday party for a ten year old because they liked it at two. You definitely need to look at the older children and what they are doing on a day to day basis.

I’d also want to know how long they have been running and whether it’s financially stable.

I am an early years teacher and I sent my dc to a three for entry school because I know that the more staff that there are, the less pressure they are under.

I'd be asking you to think more long term. Most 4/5 year olds are going to be happier playing outdoors and I can see the genuine benefits for it. My KS1 DC would much rather be outside and my eldest DC was exactly the same in KS1.
My DC go to schools that are a considerable distance from where we live, one of the key deciding factors was how much outside provision and outdoor learning the school has with small intake classes. But it's still a mainstream primary school.

However does this forest school follow the national curriculum? How on earth are they teaching things like Phonics/Maths/English/PHSE outside? Imagine being 8 years old, sat outside in -2 with everything frozen trying to write an English Report, my hands certainly don't work the best in the cold. Even in a heated pod or something it's not going to be comfortable with several layers on. What's the ratio for staff? How will your child cope when they get to the end of KS2 and suddenly have to sit indoors in a classroom, producing written work with a standard school uniform on? Because I can't see there being even private schools with this set up for KS3/4/5.

We aren't in a Scandinavian country so although it may work there, our education system is totally different and there isn't enough alternative settings for it to be a viable solution all the way through to year 11.

Do they get a hot meal at lunchtime and if so, where does it come from?
How many children in total and how long do most of them stay?
Where do they have assemblies?
Where do they perform their little concerts and shows (Nativity, etc) which are such an important part of primary schools?

My son went to a forest primary. He lasted a year and a half there and it was ultimately a very negative experience. It's just not possible to come close to matching the curriculum in those settings. Learning is patchwork and the schools don't want to admit it, so there ends up being a push to have the children to produce work that they have no understanding of, so that there is something to point at to show learning. It's ultimately much worse for the kids than anything regular schools get criticised for.

The outdoor in all weather thing is genuinely awful too. The weather in this part of the world is too bad. It's often far too wet for even the best of rain gear, and it's just miserable to be outside in driving rain, that bit by bit seeps into your clothes. And then you have to somehow get all that gear dried out by the next day, which isn't possible, so you inevitably end up dressing in damp gear some mornings. Uncomfortable from minute one.

And the absolute worst part is, that very young children can't properly articulate how horrible it is. The schools play up the good moments, taking photos (if allowed) for the parents when everything is great, telling the children over and over what a great time they are having. The parents are convinced the kids are having a great time. They see the picture, hear their kids repeating what they've been told about the great time. And then don't understand when their child does manage to tell them how they feel as they are getting mixed messages. I used to think my son was being dramatic, or precious about a bad day, because he'd also tell me it was great. In his second year I spent a lot of time in the school myself and we were gone within a few months. I saw kids have a miserable time, and then be coached to say it was lovely actually and repeat it to their parents at the end of the day.

It's not just the awful winter weather to consider. If you're down South, temperatures in the summer can easily reach 34/35° for long stretches. I'd want to know that there were suitable areas for shade in that sort of midday heat.

My DCs are beyond school age now, but I don't think it's something I would have considered for mine. I think I'd prefer the more usual mix of indoor and outdoor provision. Also, I'm probably not 'alternative' enough.
Perhaps try it for the early years stage and take stock towards the end of each year?

Jesus that sounds beyond miserable.

Would you want to be permanently outdoors all year round??? I bet not.

I don't think that's true at all about screens in primaries. At computing training, it's clear many schools still share trolleys of Chromebooks/iPads as classes are allocated a 45 minute session per week. We're much better resourced and still only tend to use them 2 days out of 5, never more than 3 days, and generally for no more than about 20 minutes in a day (this is KS2, KS1 do far less). This is very much something you could ask a school about. Some schools do have an iPad per child but even then that doesn't mean they're constantly using them.

I would love to see more with regards to how this actually works but it sounds like it would have quite a restrictive curriculum if it just focused on outdoors experiences.

I am a massive fan of forest school and continuous provision throughout key stage one but a fully outdoor school sounds very limiting.

Go for it op. He's still really young and state primary gets so formal way too quickly imo. You can always change later on when he's older if you need too.