AIBU to consider an outdoor primary over our local school?

[Welcomehat]

DS goes to a forest school at the moment , he’s nursery age. We removed him from a traditional nursery setting as he didn’t settle and was miserable. He’s absolutely thriving in pretty much every area now and most importantly to us, an incredibly happy child.

We’re starting to think about schools and we have the option of an outdoor primary school which isn’t too far from us. A lot further than our local primary but doable.

The main thing that puts me off our local school is the number of children. I know this is typical in every school but 30 kids to 1 teacher just seems crazy to me. There are 2 intakes so would be 60 in his year. He is quite reserved and doesn’t do well in large groups so I feel like he’d struggle to cope being heard with 30 children. Plus the added issues schools are facing, lack of funding, lack of SEND support etc

I also have reservations about the outdoor primary though, we’re quite a ‘normal’ family and I don’t know if it’s just a bit out there for us. I also worry as it’s not mainstream or the norm may struggle in later life, I haven’t really thought as far forward as secondary school. I know this set up is more common in some Scandinavian countries though.

Looking for some advice or opinions that I may not have thought of yet. Trying to rule it in or out as an actual option for us.

As a former state primary teacher I would say that most children would do better with a more free and play based start to their education. I would start at the outdoor school and reevaluate at 7/8yrs old. It might be he is thriving and you continue on or at that point you might want to go for a more academic environment.
The only thing I think would be important is to ensure, if he does switch back into mainstream state school at some point, that before that you get him reading and knowing his times tables. Honestly though, most children could learn this in a term of 1:1 parental teaching if needed. So don’t stress it at 4yrs old.

I would look carefully at the offer higher up the school. It quite likely is a good fit for him now but I’d be concerned about the fit as he gets older.

many schools used to split at 7 so infants was much more personalised than juniors 7 and up are ready for more challenge

We have a school like that near us. It’s popular for the kids with very alternative parents, but there aren’t many children attending. It clearly works for some kids, but my concerns would be how my child would feel when moving from there into mainstream school - other kids would be settled, have their friends, be used to the classroom, etc. It would simply delay starting mainstream school and make it more difficult.

Some people I’ve spoken to are considering flex-schooling for the reception year (when it would cause less disruption) and sending their kids to the outdoor school one day per week. Would that be an option?

Maybe explore all the different options first. As others have said if you are thinking of private have you looked at other private options with small classes? My kids go to a tiny state primary50 kids in total and one full day of forest school in the lower years. Having had two kids now finish primary I would also think about the standard of the academic offer. For reception Year 1 it sounds great to be outdoors but actually you don't want your child to be disadvantaged and behind. The older years are quite rigourous. Also small schools have their disadvantagesyou are stuck with quite a limited set of people. It can be hard. In a bigger intake you are more likely to self-select a group of friends who feel similar to you. In my kid's tiny school this isn't an option.

We have a forest school at our primary and it’s great. However, it’s a totally different situation if you’re outside for six hours a day rather than two.

Even dressing weather appropriate becomes a nuisance when you try to write in cold weather, and in the heat it becomes unbearable.

I work with a very small group of children who struggle to access the classroom, so we spend a lot of time in Forest school, but the novelty wears off very quickly.

As pp say, look at what he will be learning academically at ten and eleven, rather than the fun he’ll be having at four years old.

Gdcs’ primary (a state C of E) has routine ‘forest school’ days - the Gdcs love them. But I’ve never heard of a school that’s totally ‘forest’ - I can’t imagine how they manage every part of a normal curriculum.

If we had a forest school near us, I would be considering it. Our nursery had two days a week at beach school and my daughter thrived.

Forest schools can have really good outcomes when done well. They tend to avoid wet soggy children and trees falling on them as unhappy children and being sued isn't a great day. I would be looking at what they do on the curriculum through the school. How is the school performing? Do most children stay all the way through primary? What is your plan 11+ as going from Forest school to state secondary maybe quite a transition at difficult stages.

Honestly I don't see the dilemma. You can always reassess if it's not working out for any reason.

I think that state Reception is done well. It’s very play based with short bursts of sitting down for a story or phonics lesson (10-15 mins for each) Year 1 was a huge step up and that’s when I would have moved my sons to more outdoor provision.

Must be difficult having to buy laminated reading books and having children read and write on rainy days (which is most of the year in the UK) I feel sorry for the adults who must have to spend crazy amounts of time cleaning and drying equipment too. My sons spent a lot of Reception outdoors but would not have enjoyed lunch (and using the loo) outdoors.

Small schools look best for 4 year olds but they quickly outgrow that and it could cause you problems later because it will restrict your choice of secondary. If you pick the very small school then I would move to a bigger school at age 6/7 ish. The bigger kids seem huge compared to Receptiin but you’ll be surprised how quickly your child becomes one of the bigger kids.

I don't know how anyone in the UK could consider that.

The outdoor school is a brilliant concept for pre-school children who are learning through play. Any decent nursery will have an outdoor space and will get the kids out, every day, in any weather even if they are not purely outdoors.

However at the primary school stage there are going to be things you just can't do outdoors in the same way. If that's a compromise you're willing to make, fine. Also as others have said it rained every day for 6 weeks at the start of the year here and that creates a muddy, cold and damp mess.

Btw there is an outdoor primary school near me and it's not the case that they're outside tying to write in the cold and rain. They have indoor teaching blocks. It's just a different ethos, it's not about doing every single thing outside.

The OP seems sure that all learning at the school she is describing is outdoors though. A balance between the two is definitely a better option and what many schools both state and private already work towards.

Agree that a half-way house where there is a school building but the idea is to get them out as much as possible for 50% or 75% of the day is great. But the op says it's "fully outdoors".

She may be mistaken, people also think this primary is fully outdoors and to be honest it does kind of give that impression in its literature. She may not be mistaken but it would be very unusual because it's not possible to implement the whole curriculum outside - in Scotland anyway, for example digital literacy/creativity and computer science can't be delivered outside.

I think this. What an amazing start to have his learning free from screens. I think most would be shocked with how digitalised learning is becoming in schools, the kids literally spend hours on screens some days. Plenty of evidence to show that no formal education before 7 is great for children’s development and wellbeing. By then you’ll have a real sense of how it’s working out, how he’s doing socially etc. I’d try to join clubs local to him so he makes some local pals.

I just looked at this and it looks incredible! I like that they also do for longer days a week so you get a longer family weekend.

If OP means something like this, with a true outdoor ethos and the means to achieve it, and they can afford it, I’d say go for it!

Our two both attend a forest primary (not in the UK), they start having some indoor lessons when they turn eight to start the slow transition to the secondary school day. Our two really enjoy school, they’re both doing well socially and meeting their individual academic targets.

As the school you are considering is private make sure they have the pupil numbers to sustain it for your childs whole primary experience.

I do primary supply and was once asked to go to a forest school nursery which was totally outside - it was January and I was so cold I hated it and declined to go ever again. One child was crying and wouldn't eat lunch because her hands were too cold. Everything was on the floor and muddy, including books and dressing up clothes. That is not to say it wasn't a good establishment - it was highly regarded, but not for everyone. Also, none of the children seemed to be full time, so weren't outside all day every day.
All reception children get to go outside quite a bit these days - I've been at schools where it is up to 50 percent of the day - but they have a choice. However, that changes once they are in Year 1.

Yes I agree with others, this is one thing and I would imagine it could be great.

@Welcomehat says tho that the school they are considering is fully outdoors.

ETA I see @usedtobeaylis has posted again to say that the school they reffed appears to be fully outdoors but is not.

Like others here, I wonder how a fully outdoor school would work in practice. Are the loos outdoors too? What about reading and writing in the pouring rain – which we had lots of earlier this year? Yes today is gorgeous but tomorrow may not be.

And I know about no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes; but I cannot imagine a library lesson with year 5s outside in the rain tbh.

Intrigued by this, I as others have, searched, out of interest rather than to locate the OP. I only found very few schools which say they are outdoors and one of those is closing this summer. The one @MrsMabelThorpe linked was one I found – and that has images on its website of children indoors on computers.

Tbh @Welcomehat many schools have a forest school element, especially in lower years. I would look for a state school local to you that offered that. Two classes of 30 each is pretty standard and works well as there is the possibility of mixing classes up if there are issues, as well as dividing the year into setted groups for maths for example. My DC went to a school with an intake of 80 and it was fine.

As others say, there is a lot to be said for a good pool of friendship possibilities, local friends and a school you can walk to. Especially a school your 10-11yo can walk to on their own as a first stage of independence.

What does the outdoor school offer in terms of sports, music, drama, leadership opportunities, public speaking, practical science, bringing outside speakers in etc?

What kind of trips to they offer?

How does toileting work?

How do they deliver the curriculum? Do they just not do parts of it like the IT bits etc?

I agree with others- cute abdcfun at 4, wrong decision for a 9/10/11 year old. Miserable in certain weather- novelty eill wear off quickly, small cohort, cant walk to school, have local friends. My ds is 10 & dd 12, they love having friends nearby and ability to get to & from school independently. Also I doubt the academic outcomes at year 6 would be comparable to a state primary.

Could you effectively learn to read, write, multiply and divide in the pissing rain and freezing cold? Of course not.

Its probably suitable for children struggling with propper educational settings who attend part tine, as a "something is better than nothing" setting - but to put a non-SEN child in here, simply because he liked it during nursery is a bad idea IMO.

How is that different from the thousands of primary schools up and down the country that have regular forest school time built into the timetable?
Or the thousands of EYFS classes who often have free flow from indoor to outdoor through the whole day so if children want to spend lots of time outdoors they are free to? That's pretty standard in mainstream reception classes.

Have you been to look at either school yet for yourself or just basing it on what you have read?
A lot of primary schools do focus on outdoor provision and have forest school days set each week.
Also just because the local primary can have 60 children doesn't mean they will fulfil that (falling birth rate means some schools are struggling to recruit).

If you are in a position to pay for private education are there any other options? Especially if your focus is on the small class sizes.
Additionally you say schools are struggling for support e.g. sen, but how does this fit into the forest school? Do they not take children with Sen or do you believe they will facilitate Sen children better (staffing for instance).