Thread 26 : To feel disappointed - and disgusted and vindicated now too - after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

NO POSTS PLEASE UNTIL THREAD 25 IS FULL

Please see the OP of Thread 25 for all the links to The Observer's reporting and podcast series, our threads one to 24 and so on.

After 25,000 posts there are still new things to discuss:
BBC Sounds - Secrets of the Salt Path - Available Episodes
If you are posting about a podcast, please start your post with the episode number you are commenting on, for clarity and to help others avoid spoilers if they wish to do so.

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting. The Observer's excellent podcast series The Walkers (link in Thread 25) covers most things.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea: please do not engage with drive-by scolders who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. For over 8 months we have done amazingly well together for 25 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

As ever, as we embark on our 26th thread riding the community charabanc, keep to the path, no saltiness, eat fudge and drink cider.

NO POSTS PLEASE UNTIL THREAD 25 IS FULL: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5485730-thread-25-to-feel-disappointed-and-disgusted-and-vindicated-now-too-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

If you live in rented accommodation and you can't go out, what do you spend your money on?

No powder blue AGAs or slate floors to buy if it's not your house. No point in expensive waistcoats or smart cars if you aren't going anywhere. Apart from Iceland there's been no indication that they enjoy foreign travel. Other than glorified gardening/DIY there's been no indication that they have any hobbies.

Apart from paying the rent and bills (hopefully) what can they spend their money on? And what on earth do they do all day?

It does make me wonder if the next book is being written/grift being planned. They don't need the money (probably) but it seems compulsive.

I imagine the rent is pretty high, though...?

And do we really know they don't go out? I'm assuming the photographers have long gone, and is anyone local really going to be reporting on a car coming and going? Isn't it possible they're been discreetly coming and going all the time, or have perhaps long gone somewhere else?

Sal's ability to lie through her teeth never ceases to amaze me.

The IG clip below from a promo for The Salt Path film in Germany in May 2025 includes comments from Sal saying how the scene in the film with grant and Moth being mistaken for Sa, was just how it happened!

www.instagram.com/reel/DMe9aqxqfMY/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

I'm not in the market for 6 bed Cornish farmhouses but I'd guess a long term let (as opposed to holiday let) costs somewhere in the region of £30-50k. If they have say £5M yielding a modest 4% that's £150k left to spend.

While there won't be professional photographers camped at the gates, I can't believe they are going openly about their business locally without someone taking a photo on their phone. It's not a big place and unless they have changed their 'look' they are very recognisable. I doubt there's much local goodwill towards them.

My brain keeps autocorrecting talk of Tim's bandanas to Tim's bananas, which is a different look entirely.

I wonder if Sally will take Tim and his bandanas to Helston on Flora Day in a few weeks to join in the folk dancing. I expect he needs the exercise by now. She can do a bit of shuffling.

😀 I can just picture this! It does seem to me that Sally has always wanted to control Tim and I’m picturing her now running around after him in a paddock while he skitters, swerves and bolts. I’m picturing a Thelwell cartoon 😂

The 'This Much Is True Crime' podcast has returned to TSP! Mostly talking about lying about degenerative brain illness (which,of course, is currently being suffered by Martin Frizzell's wife - which makes him REALLY angry).

Also they point out the scandal of her having written a previous book in HNTDDD. Which, the more I think about it, wouldn't count as 'self published' because Sal and Tim set up an actual publishing company to publish. In my view that's different to just putting a book up on Amazon - it's next level. THEREFORE HNTDDD was NOT self-published, it might have been published by the author's own publishing house, but that's not the same thing as true self-publishing, and therefore TSP was not eligible for the CB prize.

Yes, I AM going to go on about this....

😅 “shuffling”
They could go to Padstow on May the 1st and take part in the ‘Obby ‘Oss festival. Guess who could be the hobby horse?!

I may have said this before on here, so I apologise if I'm repeating myself:

My dd was born with one hand. When she was little with fair curly hair and big blue eyes I noticed something at competitions:
When it was subjective to opinion, if she was with the entry (eg fancy dress) then she almost always won a prize. Sometimes, yes, I felt it was fair enough, other times I suspected there was an element of "oh the poor little one, we must make sure she gets something".
For example at her infant school they had an art competition for the children to enter at the summer fair. The children brought them with them and paraded with them. As a family it is fair enough to say that we are not artistic. She won 2 first prizes and a second - that was across the entire set of about 180 children, and well over 100 children entering each time.
One I could see where they were coming from as she'd had a good idea and it was distinctive. The other two didn't stand out. In full confession mode, in year 2, I had a quiet word with the head and asked her to ask the judges not to pick her as I felt it was another child's turn, but she still won, and, no that wasn't the one where it stood out.

If she wasn't with the entry she won about what you'd expect.

And I suspect there may be a little bit of the same. A feeling of "they've been through so much" mingled with "and Moth may not be here to enjoy more successes in the future so let's give him a prize now."
So people are prepared to overlook better entries because of the feeling that they "deserve" a boost, almost as a consolation prize.

But I do feel the frustration of authors. I've written a children's book. Had good feedback from professionals saying that it does deserve to get published and been long listed in a competition. I don't think it's going to knock the world and be the next Harry Potter, but currently my record on queries is a few nice responses and mostly a blank silence.
I find it annoying that they cheated the publishers into publishing it when there were almost certainly better written but honest memoirs that will never see the light of day because they didn't drum up the misery.
And I'll find it even more annoying if they get their latest one printed because they wouldn't have had that chance if they hadn't tricked the first ones into publication. Yet now people know that it's all based on lies, to still publish it anyway is saying that it doesn't matter.

And finally I can sympathise with family members not wanting to talk, even if they feel very badly done to. I had a situation where I was badly treated, and have almost certainly got PTSD from it. I'm two years away from it now, and my life is much better, and depression has mostly lifted. I don't want to go back to that mental state again.

Let's say Chloe or someone started investigating it and came to me, what would I do?
In a lot of ways I'd love for the instigators who thoroughly got away with it to be publicly exposed. I'd certainly love for them to have to face the truth.
But I'd be scared how it would effect me. I don't want publicity. I don't want people who know me to see me in the papers and say "oh yes, I remember when she..." It might effect my work, it certainly would bring feelings that I have worked hard at conquering back into the open. It would make me feel extremely vulnerable.
I might talk if it was anonymous. I wouldn't if there was any danger people could work out who I am.

Sorry that's long.

This distinction had definitely occurred to me as well, vroom

Brilliant post. All so true! I’ve often wondered why on earth they kept fuelling the lie. I know they were never honest people to begin with, they didn’t even have that CBD diagnosis really and just stuck it in there purely for effect. A very bad thing to do… but as time went on and other people were becoming involved in their lives it seems ridiculous that instead of dialling down, they did the opposite! At least, in book form. If Sally was writing TWS and LL while at Haye farm and living the life of Raynor Winn, I’m not surprised that it took a lot of her time and energy but even so the writing that was supposed to depict their time at Haye wasn’t even accurate. It suited their interests to claim that Tim was almost dead because it just shut down Bill at once and they didn’t think or plan beyond that. They certainly didn’t care about their commitments, new friends or reciprocate those friendships, so they weren’t at all bothered about Bill finding out what she had written in her book about Tim’s miraculous and fictitious scan or the fact that they had just play-acted their time on the farm for the cameras. These people just have no moral compass.
I think she will relish the opportunity to put on widow’s weeds and creep out at some point in the future with another book worse than the other four put together.

Not related to this post, but others contained in the articles posted upthread which have been bothering me regarding the way the narrative of TSP was shaped by the editor and publisher. Penguin states it took due diligence etc. Does that mean that they did not influence the narrative arc and say it should be written a certain way?

I think I may have pontificated about it before but then forgotten about it because I didn't realise that the CB prize hadn't explicitly disallowed self published 'first books'. Then when I thought about it again, I came back to the thought that HNTDDD was officially 'published' and therefore TSP WAS DEFINITELY ineligible for entry for the CB prize. I got distracted by my general ire and froth.

Also, the shortlist for the CB Prize when Salray won it was:

• Thomas Bourke The Consolation of Maps (Riverrun)
• Barbara Jenkins De Rightest Place (Peepal Tree Press)
• A J Pearce Dear Mrs Bird (Picador)
• Roland Philipps A Spy Named Orphan (The Bodley Head)
• Alex Reeve The House on Half Moon Street (Raven Books)
• Raynor Winn The Salt Path (Michael Joseph)

Martin Frizell goes into 'due diligence' a little in the YouTube podcast. He (and his wife) have written 'true memoirs' about living with a degenerative brain condition and he said that his publisher was quite strict on it being true. They didn't just say 'oh well, it's your truth so it's fine' - they actually required statements to the effect that the memoir was true.

This is so bad. Why haven’t they realised this?

I think it's only really since Our Chloe found the copy of HNTDDD that it's become SO obvious that TSP is stylistically so similar that they must be written by the same person and (I think) Sal has admitted to it. We mused on it, but there was no proof.

So it's relatively recent that it's come to light that TSP was DEFINITELY not eligible for the CB prize, not just our suspicions. But really, at this remove, what are they going to do? It's on her to own up completely and return the £10k prize money - and what do we think the chances of that are?

I think they never bought a house because they knew or know that they’d need to do another moonlight flit. It’s harder to escape when you own a place. So either they were waiting for it all to come out and will (or have) sneak away, or there is still more to come.

Tim is now trapped with Sal and if all her previous thefts were in order to keep him in a pleasant state of luxury while he didn’t bother to work, she now has a sure fire way of keeping him, she’s the golden goose. He can’t now go out and find another one to fund his lifestyle because he’s implicated in all this deceit and destruction, so that could be a weight off her mind.

The impression I have is that they’re very envious people, they resent others having things that they don’t have, they resent other people’s good fortune and the fruits of their hard work, even when they have enough. Source- the brag about the chateau, when what they bought was never that and in fact it was Tim’s brother who had one. And every description of the people they met in TSP except Dave and Julie (although even there there’s a lack of kindness, always making Dave one dimensional Northern and Julie being indirectly criticised for asking Sally questions).

At the same time they’re very entitled and feel they should have the things they want by working in a very particular way (gardening, writing) and not through normal any-job-in-a-storm graft like other people. They’re also very ungenerous with money as well as about people, we can see that from the unpaid bills (as well as all the stealing). I’m willing to bet they’d be the sort who would apply for carers’ allowance or winter fuel payments even though they don’t need to financially, just because they can. While at the same time dobbing in a local NMW worker for cash in hand cleaning work. That sort of attitude. So I don’t think they need or want friendships, they don’t like people and don’t value honesty or generosity- probably seeing it as weakness. I do think they like attention, particularly Tim, who’s a bit of a peacock, but also Sally, otherwise WTF was she doing with Gigspanner and narrating her own books) and I wonder how he is doing now that he has had a taste of the red carpet and then seen it snatched away. In fact they’re probably both struggling without the flow of positive attention they’ve both been basking in in recent years. If they have dark triad personalities, what happens when the outside attention disappears?

Locals in Gweek on the BBC podcast didn’t know them, even before the revelations they weren’t out and about locally and still people aren’t familiar with their faces. I wonder if they have left Gweek now and moved elsewhere, to another rental somewhere in a different part of the country. I think it’s what I would do in their situation, very quietly, and go somewhere they hadn’t publicly visited like Norfolk. They might pass under the radar a bit there.

@MargaretThursday so have I! How old is yours? What a small world 😊

@Holdinguphalfthesky
She's 22yo! Are you a member of Reach? How old is your dd?

Yes, although we dropped out for a few years for reasons I’m unsure of. She’s 15. I hope yours is doing well. I’m so surprised to meet another Reach parent on a small and niche thread- lovely and unexpected! 😊

Not related to this post, but others contained in the articles posted upthread which have been bothering me regarding the way the narrative of TSP was shaped by the editor and publisher. Penguin states it took due diligence etc. Does that mean that they did not influence the narrative arc and say it should be written a certain way?

'Due diligence' just means doing the necessary investigations before signing a contract or investing etc, and aimed at pinpointing potential liabilities, ensure information is accurate etc. It's got nothing to do with the editorial side.

One would assume that in the case of TSP it will have involved making sure that nothing actionable was said about an identifiable living person (ie, ensuring 'Cooper' couldn't have sued), that it wasn't claiming a medical miracle (so the scene with the consultant is very careful not to say he says it's definitely CBD etc), as well as broadly ensuring, as far as possible, that the narrative was substantially true.

Which is the issue with memoirs, which are inherently subjective. The author signs a contract which typically states the events of the narrative are substantially true to the best of their recollection.

The issue with TSP is that we now know very little of it was true: not the diagnosis, not the house repossession, not the walk, not the homelessness, not the winter at 'Polly's', not the employment record etc. So why didn't the due diligence pick up on this, and what exactly was done in terms of due diligence? What was shown to PRH's legal department in terms of documentary proof of TW's diagnosis and the house repossession? Who was contacted about the MS to corroborate stuff?

Some people have pointed out that the disclaimer is unusually elaborate and suggests that PRH's legal team were covering themselves, perhaps because of the medical stuff.

On editorial input and shaping, from what Chloe H said, having seen the MS of 'Lightly Salted Blackberries' (which someone who'd been sent it because they appeared in it had let her see, though she couldn't say who), it seems as though very little editorial alternation was done. She said, I think, that the only two significant alterations were that a lot of ire against 'Cooper' was deleted, and SW's mother's death was removed.

Of course, we don't know at what stage LBS was sent out, or what, if any, editorial input had come from her agent before it was sent out to editors. Again, SW's narrative is that the agent sent it straight out, I think?

We may have met then, :) although we haven't been at an AGM since before covid - before that we went fairly regularly. She did the LimbPower games for a few years too.
She's left arm below elbow amputee - most common one.

Dd's doing Musical Theatre at uni, and hoping to get an agent.

<sorry for derailment>

You could be right, but I suspect Tim's siblings - brother in N. Wales and sister in Bristol (latter still follows RW on IG) - remain on his/their side...though it depends whether any of the scandal has woken them up to smell the coffee. Both are acknowledged in TSP whereas Martyn is not, suggesting the rift was largely between them, not the other siblings (who both housed them post-eviction even in light of the theft from their parents).

Ditto. But the RSL clearly don't want to see it that way.

Thank you for this. The threads move so fast that it’s hard to keep track sometimes. I understand it correctly now and yes, according to “Raynor Winn” her book had very little editing. From what you say here about LSB (I haven’t listened to all these podcasts yet) Sally already knew how she wanted to shape the narrative arc without outside help. If there was any persuasion from another quarter, I think that would be her next move after this admission of authorship for HNTDDD, to shift blame onto an editor for needing to create a positive outcome born from dire situations. It’s that “hope” angle.