Thread 26 : To feel disappointed - and disgusted and vindicated now too - after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

NO POSTS PLEASE UNTIL THREAD 25 IS FULL

Please see the OP of Thread 25 for all the links to The Observer's reporting and podcast series, our threads one to 24 and so on.

After 25,000 posts there are still new things to discuss:
BBC Sounds - Secrets of the Salt Path - Available Episodes
If you are posting about a podcast, please start your post with the episode number you are commenting on, for clarity and to help others avoid spoilers if they wish to do so.

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting. The Observer's excellent podcast series The Walkers (link in Thread 25) covers most things.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea: please do not engage with drive-by scolders who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. For over 8 months we have done amazingly well together for 25 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

As ever, as we embark on our 26th thread riding the community charabanc, keep to the path, no saltiness, eat fudge and drink cider.

NO POSTS PLEASE UNTIL THREAD 25 IS FULL: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5485730-thread-25-to-feel-disappointed-and-disgusted-and-vindicated-now-too-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Ha! Well spotted Mulberry! It sounds about right! If it isn’t one of them, I can’t believe they can be so stupid. However, the hyperbolic imagery really fits. “Ripping entrails” indeed. “Pack of hyenas”. Good god. I’ve never known anybody to be so good at playing a victim despite a whole truckload of damning evidence that proves they are anything but. Here she goes again, likening herself to a beautiful but persecuted animal.
The two eggs in a pan. Brilliant NervesofSteel! Indeed, who does that? I wouldn’t expect any realism however. Cosplay, thank you TheBookShelf, make believe is all it is and they just keep proving that, again and again. Life is just a series of photo opportunities now. Behind the scenes chatter from lawyers might have convinced her to quietly let “Moth” go from the books themselves, if they think they can drop that particular selling point so that the illness need never be mentioned in the present tense ever again, in order to continue writing.

And as for the two eggs basking in a pan. Humour me - I'm clearly getting carried away by obscure analysis because I am mentally likening the eggs to RayMoth. I wonder if we're meant to think they are fresh and ready to go? Whereas I'd say they were already cooked...

I like your thinking! 😀
I saw a couple of Humpty Dumptys trying to put themselves back together again.

I feel... I feel...I feel a poem coming on.

She would turn the backpack inside
Out, and put the insides outside
So the inside things were outside
All on outside, not on inside,
Just the backpack lining inside,
All the warm kit on the outside
Lots of kit and eggs on outside
All for show with nothing inside.

(thank you H W Longfellow).

As I've stated many times, TSP was gifted to me because of it's "non-fiction" category. So my first reading of the "memoir" was undertaken with this very much in mind. Spent a happy childhood and adolescence (despite the post-war shortages) in a wonderful part of the UK - Minehead in West Somerset. In TSP story, their very first wild camping site was (allegedly) on the hill above the town.
It's now abundantly clear to me that the "non-fiction" label should never have been applied to TSP or indeed the sequels.
When I read "supporters" comments that it doesn't matter whether the details are true or not because it's a good story - I wonder what their reaction would be, for example, if they ordered a "genuine leather" article as described on line and it turned out to be made of cheap plastic.

Rotten eggs?

Thank you @TheBookShelf 💐 that is absolutely brilliant.

I agree and I just can’t understand the appeal of any of it now that the truth is known. It’s not just a few minor details that have been altered, it’s a whole backstory which has been conveniently removed and a pity party of other stuff just invented. Then you have her observations and thoughts. Your comparison of the books’ content with cheap plastic reminds me of some cheap, nasty looking garments I’ve seen which have been made from unnatural fibres and printed with the colours and textures of wools/crochet/patchwork. Something masquerading as another.

@UpfromSomerset "supporters' comments that it doesn't matter whether the details are true or not because it's a good story".

Wonder whether they would take the same indifferent approach to truth in charity fundraising as well as in non-fiction books.

Just some musings. I wonder if Sally Walker even exists anymore. She became Raynor Winn 10 years ago now. Yes, it was a pseudonym, but far more than that. It was a sort of rebirth - a fiction of who Sally wanted to be and detached from her former self and misdeeds. "That was a different person" she might now say. It is probably how she maintains the RW persona now instead of acknowledging the deception and immorality of Sally. She believes she IS Raynor, much loved by many readers and facing heinous accusations. The writer and the brand. Even her immediate family and friends facilitate the persona of Ray (and "Moth" too...and let's think about how Alice calls herself Rowan Alice.) Sally left the room long ago, along with her family, which is why there will never be accountability or apology and probably one reason why Alice overtly supports her on IG rather than be incredibly mortified at her mother Sally's behaviour. If anything, the scandal was the death knell for Sally, with Raynor irreversibly rising from the ashes.

Yes, thanks @YourMoneyforFrothingandYourChipsforFree I think it's quite simple really - The Four Hares like the money, they thrive on the prestige, the attention but mostly the cash. Sally has a pattern of identifying easy pickings and then milking the opportunity until she is caught.

What is the best thing to do now to try to nip her endeavours in the bud? I would have said let it drop now that even the books do not have a high profile. But, this Jill-in-the-box on IG certainly needs the lid put on it.

I agree with this analysis. It's part of her appropriation pattern of behaviour; picks up new persona and sheds the old one; and also a way of not accepting responsibility for past misdeeds as Sally.

Yes, that’s exactly what’s happened. I think it was noticeable when film stills of the actors became available. Suddenly there was something younger, better and more authentic (because they can stick to the script) to represent TSP as a story. She does rely on manipulation rather a lot, using diversion tactics and setting out the perimeters of what people are allowed to focus on, rather
like guiding or herding people at a theme park through a sequence of barriers, to keep order and control. Carefully curated photographs which bear no relation to the reality of Tim and Sally are offered along with the post-it note “wisdom”. I once put 10p into a fairground fortune telling machine, very much like Zoltar from the Tom Hanks film “Big” and it gifted you with little cards of wisdom. There is more merit in one of those than anything that comes out of Sal’s mouth. We’ve also said right at the beginning that the very presentation of TSP as being a bundle of papers tied up with string for a dying man was created for the purpose of selling this fictional author to an adoring public. People aren’t so used to false advertising currently because they can end in lawsuits, but there’s no lawsuit following this debacle. Like you all, I also firmly believe that she has detached herself from reality and believes that she can just metamorphose into Raynor Winn and talk about personal growth etc. That latest AI interpretation of her face with Moth is laughable. No, there’s never been any acknowledgment of the questions surrounding Tim’s CBD except for the narcissistic rage that it was dared to be questioned in the first place. She’s relied on this being sacred.

Going off on a tangent here but I roll my eyes at the similes of hyenas ripping entrails from poor old Sally Walker or Raynor Winn. What did she think she was doing when she was stealing thousands of pounds from trusting parents and employers? I could liken that to the disembowelling of peoples bank accounts. The woman knows nothing of kindness. Why shouldn’t people be upset about this? It’s the continuous lies which just make it worse and the cashing in on people’s good natures and sympathy, far from being unkind her readership was the opposite. 😞

So true @HatStickBoots, Sally's readership were mostly very kind, especially those who really cared about what happened to Raynor and Moth, many feel emotionally let down. I'm not on Instagram, so I haven't seen all of the positive comments. Are the comments mostly from people who loved the books, because it helped them through their own struggle or problem? They could be the more self interested people, not really worried if anyone else was hurt, it helped them and that's all that they care about.

They’re just mostly ‘Love your books!’, platitudes about inspiration and lots of heart emojis. A few people saying they’re walking the path, that they went to her Saltlines gigs or heard her read. Some definitely from overseas, as a couple asking when they will be able to see the film and someone mentions being in Alaska.

I did just notice something funny, though. SW has only responded to one commenter verbally, but she’s replied with a heart emoji to literally all the positive comments.

One person, ‘wholelottafudge’, says rather splendidly and very civilly, ‘Brings to mind Confucius’ holistic way of being. “If either wealth or poverty are come by honestly, there is no shame.”.’

No heart from SW! Clearly she interprets that as criticism! 😀

One of the reasons that Moth may not have featured in any of Sally's IG posts for the last 12 months is that he is just looking too darned healthy for somebody who is supposed to have had CBD for 21 years!

I heard from a contact that he was seen a couple of weeks ago at a social event at the luxury farmhouse they rent in Cornwall, wearing a cravat and showing no signs of illness or physical discomfort whatsoever!

So much for the jeopardy of Moth's medical status in OWH.

Thank you @ThompsonTwin that’s marvellous! In the same vein, it would appear that the tight smirk on Sal’s face completely belies the emotional gymnastics that were apparently out of control before the walk as she wrestled with the fake news that Moth shouldn’t plan beyond Christmas… which one now, I can’t remember? It’s a good thing she didn’t have a tomb stone made up! There’d be lots of crossings out! 😀

Also Wholelottafudge, thank you!

Thank you so much for keeping us updated!

The positive commenters on the Insta posts remind me of people who've been caught in a romance scam. Even when it is pointed out to them that the person they've been writing to literally does not exist, but is likely a team of scammers in a foreign country, they still continue to send money. They just cannot see beyond the fluffy words and how those words make them feel and they will pay any amount to continue to feel that way.

So I wonder if those people who are still feeling positively towards Sal just really don't want to admit they were duped and fell for someone who never existed?

Thank you @NervesofSteel, it's a shame that many people commenting are seemingly only thinking about how RW has influenced them. I think you are right @Vroomfondleswaistcoat, some must still be in denial, I expect the team are trying to work out what the percentages are, and how they can manipulate those that still have a thirst for Raynor.

I agree @Freshsocks - it’s all very well for people to say they liked the story but so short-sighted to not think about the negative impact on so many people.

As others have said, people are often invested in believing those who’ve deceived them. I remember a documentary about Jimmy Saville where his secretary - who must have been so proud of a life working for him - could/would not believe the facts of who he really was.

i wonder if that social event (alluded to by @ThompsonTwin ) was attended by some of the IG crowd…

Another article im similar vein to the AI one...
https://solidmagazine.co.uk/moth-winn/

That photo also looks fake… what a strange image.

That one is DEFINITELY AI.

I wonder if the publishers are putting this stuff out.

ETA 'Solid Magazine' appears to only exist as a Facebook page. Although I did find a 'SolidS magazine' which...

Solids Processing magazine informs professionals in the solids and bulk goods industry 6 times a year, digitally, and in print. Subscribe or advertise?
Images

I wonder if those solids are shit?

It looks as if they're enjoying life on the Costa del Crime - spas, beauty treatments, living in the lap of luxury. And our jurisdiction is trying to get them extradited!