Why are people trying to downplay how awful this is?

[laughloseya]

We got the news a couple of weeks ago that a colleague’s wife is terminally ill. Their daughter is only 23. It is so awful and I can’t stop thinking about them.

I was talking to another colleague about the situation. We are all good friends as well as colleagues and have been for many years, so know the family well. The colleague I was speaking to agreed it was awful and said she knew how they felt because she’d lost her father in her 40s. I lost my mother in my 30s and I said it wasn’t the same as being 23, and that our parents had both died suddenly, we didn’t have to endure watching it happen slowly. She immediately said ‘my uncle died slowly in my 20s, I know exactly what they’re going through’.

And then another colleague mentioned yesterday that she also knew exactly what the family was going through because her grandad had cancer in his 70s.

I just don’t understand this attitude of trying to shoehorn your own experience into this family tragedy.

I don’t think they’re intending it as absolutely literal when they say “I’ve been through this.” It’s intended to be a little bit of hyperbole.

But you seem very convinced of your opinion and outlook on this subject, so anyone here trying to discuss it rationally with you or offer alternate explanations is just bashing their head against a brick wall.

You really should when you're here doing the same thing you criticise others for. Despite numerous posters trying to point it out to you, you still don't get it.
You are very clearly comparing grief and using another person's struggle to create drama and gain attention. Essentially, you are being one of those 'grief vultures'.

You do you, you can't control how others respond to this news. A death of a parent at 40 is still very young, your college isn't going to think 'ok. It wasn't so bad then, at least I wasn't 23'. In the same way there are kids loosing their parents before they hit their teens, so does that make the 23 year old loss an easier. No it dont. You ain't the grief police

Well.. yes. Especially if the majority are saying you are wrong. Or aren't you willing to accept that you might be wrong and that everyone is just being a big meanie?

Again, are you normally so black and white about things?

Perhaps op you should sit them down and give clear instructions on how they should discuss this subject... Or alternatively respect their right to say what they want, as you do yourself.

People shouldn't try and outdo each other with grief, it's such an individual thing and nobody really knows how another person feels. At least they weren't saying it in front of the newly bereaved person, that would be insensitive. All anyone needs at that time is condolence and sympathy, not chiming in with their own experiences or those of other people they know.

So cos Im old - aged 62 and mother dying at the start of the month, very quickly, 3 weeks after being admitted to the hospital with a swollen leg, no long illness, but totally riddled with cancer , I cant express my thoughts ?

23, 30, 60, the loss of a parent hits hard

Is my grief any less at my age?

Whether it’s a quick death or a slow decline the grief is no different. Nothing really prepares you for the loss of a parent.
I do remember a profound comment my dad made about my mums death. He said that it was easier for him because he remembered a time before DM was in his life whereas we had never known a life without her.

It isn’t a competition but I do find it annoying when people make someone’s death all about them when they are/were a casual acquaintance. When a friend was dying of cancer a recent friend of his ( someone who wasn’t obviously close) went totally overboard at the funeral. He wasn’t asked to be a pol bearer or to be part of the guard of honour so he framed a photo of the friend and walked in front of the coffin on the way through the guard of honour. I asked the deceaseds lifelong, best friend if this had been planned and he said he was as surprised as the rest of us. For months after he posted relentlessly about the friend’s death and while doing a charity marathon carried the same photo along for the ride.

OP - Do you understand what “empathy” and “sympathy” are?
Humans are societal creatures and we naturally try to empathize and sympathize with others.
Just because someone has “only” lost a grandparent etc. does NOT mean they can’t empathize or sympathize with the young woman you are speaking of

@LakotaWolf First of all, I don’t want to ignore what you mentioned in your comment - I’m so sorry about you having to go through losing your father twice. I hope you’ve found support and healing. My comment is not meant to question your grief at all, or what you found helpful. I’m glad anything at all was helpful.

I completely admit that I’m confused though. Maybe I’ve been wrong about the definitions all my life? Because I always thought it was:

• empathy = you can understand exactly what the person is going through, having been through an IDENTICAL thing VS
• sympathy = you feel terrible for what they’re going through, regardless of the fact that you haven’t gone through an identical thing.

They’re not interchangeable to me. The dictionary specifically says empathy is “the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another.” It’s the “vicariously experiencing” part that makes it so different from sympathy. I think if you try to tell someone you’re vicariously experiencing their feelings without having their exact lived experience, then no, you’re not going to come across very well.

Interestingly, the dictionary lists the definition of sympathy that makes it a synonym of empathy is listed as “dated.” Our understanding of sympathy vs empathy has become much more nuanced, I think?

OP is feeling incredibly frustrated with people who think they’re expressing empathy, when really they’re just expressing… what? Not real empathy. Not real sympathy either. I’m talking about the kind of people who, when told about a loss, don’t even SAY anything sympathetic, and just immediately share their own loss.

EXAMPLE:
Person 1: “My wife is dying.”
Person 2: “I understand completely because my neighbour’s hairdresser’s cat lost his wife. As a result, I’m actually more upset about your wife than you are. In fact, I have to go put up a social media status about my friend’s dying wife, so everyone will focus their attention on me. Thanks!”
Person 1: “Uh… you’re welcome?”

Overly dramatized, but not by much.

Yeah, I can't do any better on that score than you!

but google tells me...

The Bible verse about a splinter (or speck) in the eye is found in
Matthew 7:3-5 (and similarly in Luke 6:41-42). Jesus asks why one notices the small "speck" in another's eye but ignores the "log" or "beam" in their own, teaching self-examination before judging others

seems spot on!!

Op maybe it will be more 'helpful' to draft a points system on what situation is given how many points, it should be easy because you are in control of what is acceptable or not

Then you can hand it out to everyone

Most people struggle with real empathy OP.

Would those same people, were they in the situation to be losing their mother at 23, want the listener to react with their own story about grandad dying in his 70s? Probably not.

Pride yourself on being different.

I’m really confused as to the point of you starting this thread. And I’d probably be mightily pissed off to find out that a colleague had posted a thread, with a fairly confrontational approach, about a diagnosis for anyone in my family.

For many, losing a parent is bloody awful - no matter what age, how quick/slow or any other reasons you want to factor in. For others, it will be hard for different reasons - fractured relationships, abuse, abandonment. The list is long.

Maybe the best approach would be less time posting about them on here and more time supporting them irl. Whilst also recognising that those sharing their own experiences are hurting too.

They're just trying to find a way to empathise. That being said, yes, I don't think losing a parent age 40 something is comparable to losing your parent aged 23. In all honesty, you're barely out of your teenage years, and your early 20's are such a time of significant change. Losing a parent is hard no matter how old you are, but I think it's rough to lose them young.

But these colleagues were talking to YOU, not to the colleague whose wife has been diagnosed or their daughter.or the lady herself.
So they are not trying to empathise or sympathise with those directly affected by this unfolding tragedy, they are having a conversation with you and each other.
People do usually add their own experiences to conversations on any subject including grief (or impending grief in this case).
But how can you accuse them of making it about them (aka grief vultures) or criticise their words as an inappropriate way to empathise or sympathise with that family, when they aren't actually trying to do that as they aren't even speaking directly to the family.
They could well steer clear of saying they know how they feel or decline from comparing their own experiences IF they were actually speaking directly to the family.

Surely everyone is just trying to empathise? They're just drawing on their experiences and sharing to empathise, that's all.

I think she seems obsessed with the “sameness” of things.

Whereas the reality is, a room full of 23 yos about to lose their mother would have varying experiences, emotions and reactions to that because their circumstances are all different.

unless you plan to challenge these people, why are you worked up on her behalf over something that they don’t even know about?!

You are being unreasonable OP. Frustration with your colleagues because they don't understand how awful it is for another person.

Some kids lose parents to cancer when still at school and well below the age of 23. Are people to turn learn how to express how super awful that is. Who is the arbiter of how awful it is to lose a parent based on age, cause, type of cancer speed of deterioration etc?

Or do you tell yourself you are a better person than they are because YOU understand how awful it is better then them?

I think you’re being a little arbitrary. You’re essentially saying a 23 year old’s grief for their parent is worse than a 30 year old’s. There’s 7 years life difference there, I don’t think it’s much different at all.

It’s all relative. I get your point about older people losing their very elderly parents not being the same. That’s because as humans (particularly now and in the west) we have grown accustomed to everyone living until they’re extremely old. When someone dies prematurely it’s a shock and seems much sadder than an elderly person who has lived a full life. But prematurely could mean 65 nowadays, whereas maybe 30-40 years ago that wouldn’t have been so young.

Op if I’m reading what you’re saying correctly, my understanding of it is that nobody else knows what another person is going through so you shouldn’t compare? I think by you mentioning certain ages, the message has become about a hierarchy of grief and that’s caused a lot of confusion here. Op I think I see where you are coming from, however because you know the family concerned, you may be aware of the relationship between the 23yo and her mother, but you would be wrong to assume that every 23yo would feel the same. Consider if you might be projecting here.

Regardless of age, everybody will experience grief differently and it is not appropriate or helpful to tell a person you know what they are going through because you absolutely don’t. You only know how it was for you, you can’t know how it is for them. You are not them. This applies in every grief situation, even for people grieving the same person.

There's no harm in giving your own personal experience but some people then make it all about themselves.

What you are describing in your initial post is you and your colleagues processing. The brain looks for experience you have had in the past to make sense of the present, so your colleagues have linked to their experiences of death of a parent or cancer. This allows the brain to start to consider what may happen in the future, so people naturally feel they know some of what the person is going through and helps them to sympathise and empathise.
You seem to have taken offence to others saying that they know what they are going through. People say this as they have some experience, it is commonly known that no one knows exactly what someone else is feeling/ going through. However your comment that it is not the same, most people will see as you stating that the daughters situation is worse, even if you didn’t mean it that way. Just as you have taken others comments as making it about them.

As someone, who lost my dad at 16, this comment feels so dismissive of how it actually felt to lose a parent so young.

Several people have told you a hierarchy of loss is unsavoury. You seem to be saying your colleagues are creating one sort of hierarchy. Yet this thread is just creating another.

@Andepeda said she lost a parent age 8 and therefore making her the winner. She made no bones about what she thought. Maybe you should go back and read the post.

I haven’t read the entire thread because I need to walk away from the disturbing feelings it brings. I have, however, read all your posts op.

Amazing writing, so sorry for your loss. ❤️