Is receiving £30k pa on benefits “living in poverty”?!

[ChumpWizard]

Amol Rajan BBC R4 Today was in Colchester this week. Great interviews but one thing had me wondering.

Is receiving c£30,000 pa on benefits “living in poverty”? That’s the equivalent of a FT job earning c£40-£42k Pa.

What happens if your local supermarket doesn't accept vouchers? Not everyone lives near the big chains

Reducing benefits so people have to get a job instead. If you’re affording takeaways on benefits then they’re clearly too high.

Then you do that for all benefits

It's also going to cost far more than giving out money as many of us find that out disability benefits don't cover anything

What happens if you pay family for care? In my case they earn too much for carers allowance and care from sn agency will cost more

I know a family of 3 adults who take in £3000 per month on benefits. They take a taxi to M&S to do their weekly shop as they “don’t do buses”. They’ve told me so before anyone questions. Equally I know 3 single disabled pensioners who can’t afford to feed themselves properly and another working age single lady who works full time but can’t afford to heat her flat and has been denied any benefits.

The benefit system is ridiculous and unfair as are most things in this country these days.

DD is 32. She's lived in house shares for a number of years. both during and after Uni. House share is coming to an end, as they do and she was talking about her budget so we looked at it together on a spreadsheet.
She's coming to live at mine for a bit and we'll see where that goes. Hopefully it will help her pay off her credit card and put some serious savings aside.
Of her group of similarly aged friends, the ones looking to buy houses have had a hefty inheritance from somewhere, she has not.

What came winging through the spreadsheet was that take home of £2000 didn't get you very far unless you were sharing or a couple. T'was ever thus, I know but £2000 a month or thereabouts somehow feels it should buy one more than it actually does.

They do it for every single meal. Even McDonald's breakfast. Get it on Uber eats and deliveroo as well. Spending more of OUR money.

My (very small, lower level PIP) disability benefit goes towards things like petrol for the car as I can't use public transport, getting my shopping delivered as carrying it even from the car to the house causes too much pain, getting things done that I used to be able to do but can't any more.

How would you organise vouchers for that kind of thing? X amount towards petrol hoping that the nearby petrol stations will accept them, paying handymen for bits & pieces (they won't accept vouchers except the bigger & more expensive companies) etc. My car costs a bit more to run as I need to drive an automatic, and don't even think of suggesting I get an EV as every year I pray my clapped out car survives it's MoT as I can't afford to replace it (cost me around 2.5k 2 years ago).

And everyone's needs are slightly different especially when it comes to disabilities; think of the cost of having people who's entire job is to work out what every individual needs according to their unique issues. That's why it's so hard to manage some benefits on need rather than the blunt instrument of things like age - the cost of administering that would be too high.

People who are on State Pension who rent are likely to receive housing cost help.

My take home from working is almost exactly that. I manage okay as a single person but if you added a few children to the mix, I don't think I'd be surviving very well if I'm honest.

£2500 per month isn't a huge amount in the South. Bear in mind that £30000 per year is likely to be a large family. The only 4 bedroom house available to rent in my area is £2000 per month and the LHA rate is £1695 per month. That means that they would have £500 per month as disposable income, of which £305 would be needed to top up rent.

But it would be just as tight for someone earning 40k, and having to pay tax, NI and pension. They would take home less than 30k per year (at my pension contribution rate anyway). Would anyone claim a working person earning 40k is living in poverty?

I'm not on benefits but I can't imagine a family being able to afford takeaways.

They have not paid for it. Lifetime tax receipt in real-terms are on average £200k less per person than the real-term value of state pension welfare and other state services that they will receive.

And per my previous post my suggestion was to uprate it with earnings only, instead of the triple lock, and to means test it so it isn’t received by households with a separate after-tax net income, after housing costs, of £40k per year (to support just 1 or 2 adults, with no housing or childcare costs: far beyond the dreams of most working people).

Those two measures would save almost £150bn per year within 10 years. That would transform life in the UK.

It would hardly result in “destitute geriatrucs wandering the streets” for pensions to rise at the same level as wages and not to give unnecessary welfare to millionnaire households with far higher incomes than average working people supporting families. What hyperbole.

That generation needs a reality check and their demands for state welfare and services at a level they have neither paid for nor provided for their own parents and grandparents are strangling the economy and living standards for everyone else.

You either don’t need disability benefits in which case lucky you.

Or you do need them but choosing not to claim them because you disagree with benefits. No medals for that.

Or you do need them but was rejected and now you think nobody else should have them.

My guess is you’re the first one.

In interviewer might well ask what you did with those years or the title of your job or whatever?

Totally I worked out I need to earn 18k a year to get what I have in out of work benefits. That is living poverty in London. My pip is for disability and it's gone on physical therapy, cleaners, supplement, cleaners disability aids.

People suggesting that have been drinking the Farage kool aid. It’s the most economically illiterate and absurd suggestion. How would businesses be forced to accept them, and tradesmen, self-employed taxi driveres, cleaners, small retailers of mobility aids, independent shops providing school uniform etc? The administrative costs would be enormous, it would be hugely open to fraud and create another huge black market. How would the businesses redeem them? How long would HMRC/ DWP take to reimburse them with the money (the HMRC that shut down their phone lines entirely for many months because they didn’t have enough staff to even answer the telephone let alone process anything)? How much would it cost to set up the IT systems?

Absolute idiocy driven by economically illiterate and vindictive people who have no practical ideas about how to actually redirect spending to create growth and rising living standards and hate the idea that chronically ill/ disabled people/ poor people with children are given any financial support.

That support could be structured far better through redesign of the tax system, but “vouchers” are a laughably ridiculous suggestion designed purely to try to humiliate those in need of help.

@JessieLongleg I think there's a huge difference between supporting people who are disabled, and handing out pots of money to people who have chosen to have six children despite both parents being unable to work.

If you’re annoyed about a family on benefits having some chocolate cereal in the cupboard then I’m sorry but you’re the one with the problem.

Don't mind me if am sceptical about that.

Also what if the child is disabled and won't eat all the lovely fruit and veg? Should they starve because they aren't allowed the chocolate cereal?

This sums it up beautifully, thank you.

I also can't see those pushing for vouchers for disability benefits rushing to accept their child benefit or state pension in vouchers either. Why people think it's acceptable to hurt people whose lives are already difficult is beyond me.

Second actually. I earn enough and don’t need to claim. People currently see it as a means to get cash to cover general living expenses and that’s not what it’s meant for. It’s meant to be for paying for extras that are incurred due to disability. There was a panorama recently where someone with ‘adhd too bad to work’ was signed off on permanent disability benefit. She seemed fine. Was renouned for her insta videos apparently. But yes totally incapable for working forever. These people need a kick up the backside as we as a nation simply cannot afford to fund them. Why more truly disabled people aren’t enraged by these people I don’t know!

I do t think they’ll starve. Do you seriously think a child will starve themselves to death because you didn’t buy them the cereal they wanted? They’d just die if there was a war and rationing was introduced would they?

Listen to yourself. You’re being ridiculous!

You've never had experience of ARFID have you?