AIBU To think there is joy to be had in womanhood?

[ProudMammysHouse]

Just saw this tweet by MP Rosie Duffield: https://x.com/RosieDuffield1/status/2032146070046650812

" "Joyful in their womanhood" is something no biological woman has ever said and meant, ever."

And it's just made me really sad for her. I know things aren't perfect and some parts of being a woman are downright unfair but to be this negative about it just seems like there are other issues going on with her.

Am I the only one who has ever felt beautiful, powerful and dare I say, joyful, in my womanhood?

well "white Brits" are not some homogenous mass, for a starter.
I can't imagine someone from Edinburgh is particularly proud of or finds joy in the Welsh or Cornish languages, for example...

I think her point is that most women might be happy enough being female and wouldn't necessarily change it, but that doesn't mean they're out there making cringeworthy wanky statements like an American self-help guru. It reminds me of a friend's mum who told her 'Welcome to womanhood,' when she started her periods. Most women just get on with their lives, of which being a woman is an inextricable part of it, rather than actively performing special magic pink sparkly sister solidarity femaleness all the time.

I wouldn't say there's "joy" in being female any more than there's "joy" in having 2 working legs, or brown hair, or being white. I'm not unhappy with any of them, some of them (e.g. my health) I'm very grateful for, but I wouldn't say they cause me joy!

I think women are better and I wouldn't like to be a man (since I'm lucky enough to have been born here and now) but joy sounds a bit wanky

I think I had a good result being a woman.

"Joyful in their womanhood" sounds very cringe to me, however I have always been happy to be a woman (with no children) and can't remember ever wishing that I was a man.

Men can be healers without the lure of financial gain. In an Irish context, for example, men are just as likely as women to have The Cure. And plenty of men have been accused of witchcraft.

Neither of these have anything to do with starting wars.

Not in Ireland they weren't. In fact we had hardly any witch trials, Ireland also isn't known for starting wars, so maybe our men are just better 😂

But in the rest of Europe you have to admit that far more women were hunted for being healers and doing 'womanly magic'

I think perhaps you are conflating ethnicity and culture here.
If you were born to Irish parents but adopted and raised in Russia, speaking only Russian and having barely heard of Ireland, you would not feel any joy in Irish culture. If, on the other hand, you were ethnically Russian, but raised in Ireland by Irish adoptive parents, speaking English and Gaelic, you would feel everything you have described regarding joy in your Irish culture.
So it is not your biological ethnicity which brings you joy, but the culture you grew up in.

Many people have said similar things on this thread, along the lines of liking being a woman because of their deep friendships with other women. The implication is that men are not capable of experiencing this joy, but this isn't true. I grant you that in a typical UK context it is less common. But is this not because we have raised men to be 'strong' and bury their feelings? Men can and do form these close friendships with other men; it is not exclusive to biological women. But it is easier for women to achieve because this society does not discourage women from talking about feelings. It is therefore cultural, not biological, just like the Irish example above.

The question is whether you consider womanhood to be exclusively biological, or whether you think society's current expectations/stereotypes etc are actually part of womanhood.

I enjoy being a woman but I would never in a million billion years say that I took joy in my womanhood. Nor would anyone I know.

I'm not sure I experience womanhood as joyful tbh. Maybe what she's trying to point out is that there is no such thing as feeling like a woman - we can all only know what it is like to feel like our own self. So when you feel joy about experiencing life as yourself, even solely female things like motherhood, that's not really womanhood, it's one specific woman experiencing one female experience which not every woman goes through and which every woman experiences differently.

One of the most irritating things about how many TW talk about 'being a woman' is precisely that they seem to believe in one type of womanhood, which is characterised by one set of traits, experiences and attitudes. Also, if you can cherry-pick the parts of being a woman that you like, no wonder you find it joyful.

You do you , boo.

There's a reason that people accused of doing 'womanly magic' tend to be women.

For all the crap we endure I would always choose to be a woman than a man.

At the same time I have frequently thought it is better to be bullied than be a bully.

Men definitely still have the advantage in society but it doesn’t mean I want to be one.

So sad that some women do want to and cut their body up and take drugs to pretend that they are.

It is an odd question - joy is subjective so won't be universal to all women. I, like others on the thread, am often glad I am a woman as I feel we are the backbone of humanity. We notice and do things for our families and communities that men just don't see or want to bother with. They lose out on many connections and real humanity I suspect because of their hormonal drive to be selfish, but also the patriarchy. When we all loose our jobs to AI women will have support networks and find things to do, while a lot of men will have lost all structure.

I agree with PP who say my joy in womanhood is the absolute solid gratitude I'm not a man. I love being a woman. I love the aesthetic of being female, that I can be soft and strong simultaneously. I love my female friends. I love my DC and DGC and the relationships I have with them. My DH loves them as much as I do but the dynamic is totally different. I loved being pregnant and breastfeeding. I love not having the societal pressure of toxic masculine expectations. I even love that people often underestimate my intelligence - I'm a small, elderly woman so they assume I'm a moron. I love blindsiding them.

I would rather be a man

i wonder if some of the different opinions stem from different personalities- the mOre your personality doesn’t fit the gender the norm the more you may have been bullied as a child and suffered the sexism of society ( disrespect at work for example because you are a female in a male role, needing to fight for equal pay, promotion, by proving each bloody time that sexism is at play ) the more likely you are to hate being a woman ?

and the worse your response to periods and hormones the more likely you are to hate being a woman ?

I am trying my best here because I can’t really understand why anyone PREFERS to be a woman - mind blowing

I think much of what has been said to be joyful about womanhood is person specific.

My husband has closer friendships with both his friends and his family than I do. I am far more aggressive than he is - these attributes spring from our different family upbringing, not our sex.

I don't fit 'womanly' stereotypes in any way.

I have children that display a range of the attributes said to be woman specific, yet they are not women.

Our values, our attributes are a mix of our evolutionary biology and genetics, our childhood nurturing experiences and the culture of the society(ies) that we have lived in.

Your Russia comparison isn't true at all. Just look at the Irish who live abroad, especially the Irish Americans and see how proud feel about being Irish. It is an ethnicity, that's why on forms it says White Irish and White British as options.

Hmm - that’s an interesting one. I don’t think I do necessarily take joy from being British, or English. I like living here and to an extent I am proud of some aspects of our society but joyful is not a word I would use to describe my nationality or ethnicity.

I think the context of her tweet is important, it was a reply to this tweet - "You are a miserable, misogynistic woman who is envious because trans women actually “want” to live as women and are joyful about their womanhood.. "

Women might feel happy to be women or enjoy parts of womanhood but she's right, it's not something a woman would ever go around saying particularly. I think she's just annoyed at having womanhood 'explained' to her by men.

The phrase has a definite hint of gender euphoria.

I’ve met Rosie Duffield a few times. She’s a bloody amazing woman who’s a lot braver than most MPs when it comes to standing up for women’s rights.

That's because they know they have Irish ancestry. If they didn't know about, in the case of adoption, they wouldn't feel it. Therefore it is not their biology but their lived experiences of being told about Irish culture.

And the people who think they have an interesting ancestry but turn out to be merely English. Unless they can squeeze out a crucial 10% of something else.

I'm love being a woman. I've never thought specifically that it ''brings me joy'' but i have always thought i do being a woman well 😊

I have no interest in arguments about what makes a woman a woman, ect. ect. I am one and i'm happy i am. I don't feel the need to compare my experience of life with that of a man's - neither is better than the other - but i wouldn't want to be a man.

I've got 4 DC and i love that they grew inside me and that i'll be there for them if they need me until the day i die. I would not want to have the capacity of having total detachment from their own children which so many men seem capable of (my x included).

I feel a connection with other females which springs from shared experiences of the worst of our culture at the hands of men. We are often treated like second class citizens but in my head i know i am NOT second to any man.

I agree. I'd hate to be male and all solid feeling and hairy and stinky 😂
I am straight btw and I do find men sexually attractive 😁