To think not enough value is put on friendships that aren’t particularly deep?

[FeastisReady]

I have a good group of close friends who I’ve known for decades and who I can rely on in a crisis, confide in, etc.

I have other friends who I couldn’t do that with. But does that make the friendship not of any value?

I’m thinking of one in particular, an old work colleague who I meet with from time to time. We have some wine, talk about films, TV, books we’ve read, meals, holidays - we always have a laugh, drink more than we intended and stay out later than we expected. We barely mention our kids, our husbands, work, except in passing and it’s bloody great to take my mind off all of those things for a few hours.

Between meet ups we barely contact one another.

Yet I sometimes read on here that a friendship that isn’t someone you can call on anytime isn’t worthwhile.

AIBU?

I think this describes all my friendships. I've never got the idea of phoning someone late at night talking about my problems. That's just not what friendship is to me. No judgement either way, I just like friends for fun.

Yes the amount of threads where normal human behaviour is deemed to make a friend a "cheeky fucker" is astonishing. How very dare she ask you to take a parcel in. As for the ones who have the temerity to invite you to a party that isn't ultra-convenient for you...

As a bit of an introverted teenage loner who still gets hives at the thought of networking, one of the nicest surprises of my adult life is that friends (and, yes, good acquaintances) have been so easy to find. I think it's because I've gravitated towards "my tribe", I actively sought out people who were on some level like-minded.

Oh, I had a miserable time at school. One of the enormous pleasures of university and post-university adult life has been making a wide variety of friends, and discovering how enriching friendships are.

Yep same! I found FWBs much easier to deal with than the idea of an actual relationship with actual emotional intimacy in my 20s (and frankly one night stands who I didn't even have to be friends with were even more preferable).

I wonder if the "drama" stems from the sort of person who prioritises finding a partner naturally also being the sort of person who views other women as competition. That's a view that crops up a lot on MN, the idea that we all "naturally" compete with each other. I am so, so glad that I found a social circle of women (and men) who just don't see each other in this way.

I stayed in it for about a year after I last spoke to anyone in it. Then left it. No one contacted me since.

I have a friendship with a colleague whereby 99% of our out-of-work interactions are leaving each other voice notes laughing at what an idiot Zak Polanski is and sending each other funny Instagram reels.

Its currently my favourite friendship and just what I need

completely agree. On any MN friendship related threads there's always one or two posters who pop up to say that they don't have friends because all groups of women are bitchy/too complicated/they just don't have anything in common with other women, etc.

Often this friendlessness isn't actually a choice on their part - or if it is it's been made after bad experiences in childhood and early adulthood with other women. It then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby whenever they then enter a new situation with a group of women they are pre-disposed to assume said 'group' won't like them, so they distance themselves before the 'group' can exclude them to avoid getting hurt again. Then of course the 'group' react to someone whom they see as acting superior/doing the 'not like other girls' spiel or just generally being stand-offish, and do start excluding the poster or even talking about them, and the poster's biases about 'all women' are proven again.

Then reading MN they then get their biases confirmed even more whenever somebody posts about an issue with a friendship group - "see, I'm right! Big groups of women are always bitchy, it's not a problem with me" and don't get that that's because people with normal healthy friendships aren't starting threads on social media about them!

Most people have a middle ground. My friends from high school (left in 2000), I haven't had a proper falling out with anyone since we were 16. There's odd spots of tension but we're mature, intelligent women. It doesn't need to be dramatic! My best friend from work, I had one proper falling out with but it was at a point when we were both single, and the friendship was intense. Actually all resolved by talking. I think some people enjoy the drama. Like couples who scream and shout and throw things then fall into bed together, they need high drama for the adrenaline to make the relationship feel BIG.

I do agree op. I do a voluntary role where I see people a few times a year. You'd never guess from watching us drink, play, talk, laugh that our friendships are so shakkoely rooted. But it doesn't matter. There's depth where it matters

@gannett

I wonder if the "drama" stems from the sort of person who prioritises finding a partner naturally also being the sort of person who views other women as competition.

Quite likely. I think it's also upbringing. If you're taught from a young age that its about finding a "handsome prince" or that finding a husband is incredibly important you're going to prioritise attracting and keeping a mate over everything else.

If your one job is to look attractive, smile a lot and not say too much, allow yourself to be chatted up and then play the rules long enough to be proposed to then of course you're going to find the "rules of the game" easier, as @FacingtheSun referenced several people saying.

Whereas the whole ambivalent, messy business of making friends (of both sexes) is going to seem harder to navigate, particularly when it comes into conflict with keeping the man happy. Hence the "drama", I guess. A lot of people like to keep relationships very predictable and black and white.

And then of course these people who have sidelined their friends in youth because they've found a man invariably wake up in late middle age bored, friendless and stifled (or worse, isolated and ostracised) and come onto Mumsnet complaining they don't know how to make friends.

I find it incredibly depressing how ingrained these attitudes are and how willingly women walk into this.