To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

[nc0007]

Well it’s not really a debate, is it? You either don’t care, or you’re absolutely seething because your meat may or may not be halal. But irrespectively of what you think about this, AIBU to think that people ‘outing’ businesses on social media about what meat they use and encouraging hundreds of people to smear them not just in posts but reviews to tank their ratings is just crazy?

Hundreds of people commenting ‘I’ve just left them a bad review on google’ because a (British owned baked potato) business extended their trading hours to their Muslim customers? People who have never bought anything from them in their life, probably geographically will never go there. Actively trying to sabotage a business because you think you’re what - some sort of activist?

And don’t get me started on the posts where people reach out to these poor customer service reps in supermarkets to ask them if the meat they sell is halal because of this mad narrative that ‘80% of supermarket meat is halal’ - where has this nonsense come from?!?! 😂 People screenshotting and commenting about how ‘Clare from Lidl’ is avoiding the question when she probably doesn’t have a scooby and the answer probably isn’t a straight yes or no either!

Madness. Utter madness. People treating this like it’s a full time job.

I'm not trying to shut anyone up, I'm pointing out the logical inconsistencies in their arguments.

I haven't noticed a huge increase in posts if the kind you refer to.
I do feel strongly that all meat should be labelled as to whether it is halal, kosher or otherwise. That is the only way to be respectful of religious and cultural needs whilst ensuring that everyone has an informed choice in what they are eating.

I like and expect my meat the way I like and expect my education and laws, SECULAR.

Well, yes, I've been a vegetarian for almost 40 years too. I'm not a fan of slaughtering animals in a cruel way either, and I agree it's unnecessary. However, I am also against the cruelty involved in factory farming and I don't find that necessary either.

In addition, as a vegetarian and not a vegan, I'm aware of the tremendous cruelty involved in the dairy industry. I'm not ready to give up milk just yet, but i recognise that it would be hypocritical of me as a non-vegan to start lecturing others on what type of animal cruelty is tolerable and what type is intolerable.

Do you even know what halal slaughter is? It’s a swift cutting of the jugular vein. There is nothing slow about it. And your suggestion that it’s done this way to cause maximum pain just shows your deep seated prejudices.

You can’t be that secular if you think meat takes on the religious beliefs of the person slaughtering it.

No idea who he is but have just googled him, his views are out of step with most Muslims in that he eats non-halal meat.

To suggest that halal meat is part of some sort of Islamic extremist ideology is laughable and doesn’t even deserve a response.

As an atheist I do not think that, but there are atheists who simply don’t care (which is fine) and atheists who proactively do not want religion introduced where previously there was none. Historically we do not pray in our slaughterhouses in the UK and I don’t see why we are now doing Muslim prayers over meat eaten my the entire population.

I do find it odd that people claim to value animal welfare, yet they are happy to pay for animals to be abused, and kept in awful conditions for their whole lives.

If someone actually cared about animals they wouldn’t be eating meat or dairy.

Isn’t it odd that these people are campaiging against factory farming, shredding male chicks alive, taking calves from their mums or pigs in pens so small they can’t turn it around, yet animal welfare is a priority for them.

Halal meat is labelled. The parts of the animal that are not kosher are sold on the ordinary meat market despite being slaughtered for the kosher market. You are more likely to pick up a leg of lamb in a supermarket that has been slaughtered for the kosher market than the halal market.

The arguments against labelling kosher meat are that if they do not sell the "off cuts" on the general meat market, then they'd have to charge even more for kosher meat. They also say that those off cuts are not kosher so shouldn't be labelled as such regardless of how the animal was slaughtered.

There is no inconsistency. Labelling is so people can be informed so they can make a choice.

I’m not sure why any pp has as issue with that. Buying halal or into any religious ritual isn’t compulsory.

Halal meat is labelled though. It is only kosher slaughtered meat that is sold on the general market.

As repeatedly stated on this thread, I am in support of comprehensive labelling so that people can make informed decisions.

So perhaps you could respond to the point that I was actually making rather than creating a strawman.

Most lamb imported from New Zealand isn’t labelled halal even though the vast majority is halal. Ironically most Muslims don’t eat it because it isn’t labelled halal.

Non-halal supermarket consumers have the choice to buy British lamb, which isn’t halal.

It’s because virtually all NZ abattoirs slaughter it halal to be able to trade with countries in the Middle East like Saudi Arabia.

Why don’t people write to New Zealand abattoirs or the NZ government or to UK supermarkets to complain instead of blaming Muslims for eating halal?

That’s interesting regarding kosher meat, it makes sense.

It's stunned anyway.

The labelling should probably just focus on whether the animal was stunned before killing.

I don’t want any religion brought into products that are for the general public. Unless the restaurants are kosher or halal or supermarkets have a niche section so you would know what you are getting, the rest (the majority) should be as before. This is not a Jewish or Muslim country, why is this not even a thing?

Yes except for the fact that the issue many of us have is with meat that isnt stunned vs meat that has been prayed to. I don't think it is much of a concern if kosher meat becomes very expensive to those who feel it necessary to purchase it.

Money. Ensuring that your meat is slaughtered according to halal standards opens up your market to a wider range of customers.

Selling the non-kosher parts of the animal on the general market reduces waste.

That can be labelled too as it’s sold here.

And everyone can make informed decisions. I don’t see there’s a problem with doing that.

Hard disagree. There are laws about the slaughtering of animals in the UK, there should be no exemptions.

Yes Jewish and Muslim bodies have been calling for labelling around stunning for some time.

Here is a letter from 2014 to the FSA:

In their letter, the MCB and Shechita said meat labelling should clearly state whether animals had been mechanically stunned prior to slaughter. It states: "They [consumers] should be told the method of slaughter: captive bolt shooting, gassing, electrocution, drowning, trapping, clubbing or any other approved methods."

The groups said that animal welfare groups should also support such comprehensive labelling.

"It would offer all consumers genuine choice, whether they are motivated by animal welfare, religious observance, or even intolerance of anyone who looks or worships differently to them," the letter said.

The letter is a bit loaded. I’m sure when people say no thanks to the holy communion the reaction isn’t the same.

So why do people call it the "halal meat debate" when:

A) most halal meat is stunned
B) meaning the unlabelled halal meat on the market has likely been stunned
C) kosher meat is not ever stunned and routinely unlabelled.

Why isnt it the stunned meat debate? Or the halal and kosher debate?

Loaded maybe but accurate.