To think I am not going to whither away?

[wavecurlnoidea]

Soooo, my BIL tells me today that I am destined to suffer sarcopenia and muscle loss when older because I only eat meat 3 times per week. Even worse, my chosen meat is fish.

i just prefer that, although I do like poultry every now and again. I don’t care about following a diet, it’s how I like to eat. I mix this with lots of whole grains, lentils, beans and dairy. I also like a bit of sugar for treats. I eat tons of veg. But I understand that I need more than that.

His theory is I won’t get enough protein and fish is inferior. And only eating it 3 times a week is encouraging muscle loss.

I am 50 and fairly fit, normal weight and feel ok. Health check recently just fine.

is he or am I the arsehole?

I dont eat any meat.

“Fish” is not included in the natural meaning of the word “meat” in English. That is why you often hear references to “meat or fish” on menus and in cookbooks

Nobody says “I’m going to the fishmonger to buy some meat”.

And yes, before anyone jumps up to point this out, I am well aware that some types of fish are described as “meaty”, such as monkfish, but that is because their texture is reminiscent of actual land animal meat.

I eat meat maybe once a week, I just don't really like any meat apart from bacon and very occasionally something with beef in it. I eat alot of dairy, nuts and the occasional egg.. I definitely haven't withered away yet 😅

For example:

Tell him to google vegan power lifters.

I would think that's because they aren't getting enough to eat.
Meat isn't a necessary component of a healthy diet.

These people are very much the exception to the rule. It's really unusual to be able to eat a vegan diet and grow/retain strength while powerlifting.
There are many moral/ethical benefits to being vegan, nutritionally it's still a significant compromise. Though the OP eating fish and dairy gives her a lot more leeway.

So what?

Meat is the primary reason humans are at the top of the food chain.
Without meat the human brain would never have evolved the way it did.

In terms of protein, a simple rule of thumb is that you should be having the number you weigh in kg (say 70) in grams of protein per day minimum, up to about double (in this example 140g).

This is much easier to do if you eat meat and fish, and not impossible to do if you’re vegan/vegetarian, but it takes a lot more thought.

Muscle and bone density in middle aged women starts to rapidly decrease and doesn’t stop/reverse unless you actively do things which will build muscle and bone density (such as training with weights and eating a balanced diet with protein).

Judging by your meal examples OP, you have a fantastic diet and I’d love to eat at your house 😂 but I obviously dont know the exact measurements of each thing you’re eating in a day to know what level of protein you’re in taking.

Meat may not be a necessary component of a healthy diet for middle-class women with the education and means to buy the required foods to ensure that they do not suffer from malnutrition, particularly B12 vitamins.
Most people on the planet are not in that very privileged position.
Virtue signalling is an indulgence of a privileged minority.

So, in an average week you eat
1 portion of meat
2 portions of fish
a few eggs
some dairy
several portions of lentils.

To me this sounds like not enough protein. A woman needs a minimum of 0.8g protein per kilogram of body weight. I would suggest that you track your protein intake for a week or two to get a clearer idea of whether you are consuming enough. (There are lists of protein content of different foods online.)

Meat isn't necessary for protein and B12 vitamins provided you have the means and the knowledge to buy the required replacement foods to ensure you do not become deficient in B12 vitamins, iron and long-chain omega-3 fatty acids.

Without knowledge and money it's incredibly difficult to follow a "healthy" vegan diet which is one of the reasons it is predominantly followed by middle-class women in the West. It is however, incredibly easy to be vegan and very unhealthy if you do not have the requisite knowledge and available funds to buy vegan foods that are often quite expensive - nuts in particular cost more per kilo than meat - I know which one I prefer.

Veganism is a quasi-religion in that it shares characteristics with faith, such as a moral framework, strict dietary codes, and its cult-like members are always proselytizing.

Potential Health Risks for Vegans:

• Bone Health: Studies have indicated a higher risk of total, hip, and leg fractures, partly due to lower average BMI and lower calcium intake.

• Mental Health: Some evidence suggests higher rates of anxiety and depression.

• Brain Function: Potential for cognitive impairment (brain fog) due to deficiencies like choline

• Muscle Wasting: Potential due to lower overall protein or calorie intake. National Institutes of Health (.gov)

Putting aside the bunkum you've written, people across the globe eat plant based diets, not only middle class western women.
Modern vegan food is much less expensive than meat, but a bag of lentils, one of brown rice and another of spinach will feed a family for several days, offering adequate nutrition and costing a fraction of any animal based alternative.

Lifelong very strict vegetarian /vegan for several decades person here. I have not withered away, I am healthy, very active and am rarely ill. Mid 60s.

For an unrelated issue I had to have several tests and scans recently. Bone density is far better than average for my age, heart etc all fine.

Your BIL seems very uneducated about diets and nutrition but I suspect it is easier to ignore him than to try to change his mind.

TheDaysAreGettingLongerAtLast

What nonsense about vegans proselytizing. There are very many people who know me who have no idea I am vegan. Unless it crops up in a food situation such as a meal with friends I can't think of a reason to mention it. It's a personal choice, like the style of knickers I wear or which moisturiser I use, simply not interesting enough to talk about.

I meet a friend about once a month for tea and cake. We had been doing this for nearly two years before she noticed I always chose vegan cake. I prefer fruit teas so I hadn't been asking for oat milk.

What is worrying is that people stereotype vegans in the same way that they stereotype ethnicities or disabilities.

Muscle loss and muscle wasting are 2 completely different things.

From what you have said, you are physically active, your diet has a balanced intake of plant and meat based protein, healthy fats, dairy and a variety of vegetables - sounds very much like a Mediterranean diet which is hyped to be the most healthy type of diet

The conditions he is referring to would give muscle wasting and is loss of muscle tissue through illness but under the circumstances you are in, I wouldn’t suggest you are high risk for these conditions. Muscle loss is a reduction in the size of the tissue however is rebuilt with activity and protein of which you do plenty

B12 can be gained from animal products but in your circumstances is fish, eggs and dairy - vegans of course usually need to take a supplement due to not having any intake of these at all

Frankly - he’s a bit full of something to make such a suggestion to you. Really can’t see his issue

I haven't eaten meat in over a decade and I'm going strong

Lentils do indeed have protein, but they're not a complete protein, as I'm sure you're aware. Just because many people around the world survive on vegetarian diets doesn't mean that they're nutritionally sound or that they aren't being affected by poor health.
I just did a quick Google and found some stats that got example in India, 30-40% of Indians generally eat a vegetarian diet. There's no information on malnutrition in that specific population, but around 47% of the overall population is thought to be B12 deficient.
It is entirely possible to have a balanced vegan or veggie diet as other posters have pointed out, but it does require having a varied diet and time to cook, and a certain level of wealth or privilege is needed for that.

Another poster talked about b12 earlier. Meat eaters get it via injections to animals because industrial animsl farming has depleted soil. So we could all cut out the middleman and take a supplement. You'll notice that i included wholegrain rice with those lentils to ensure all 8 amino acids were included in the meal, along with vitamin c to aid iron absorbtion and readily available calcium in the spinach. I've spent 30 years having these sorts of discussions, and people have been conditioned for so long that eating animals is essential to their health that they forget to think critically. I've just been to a conference where the keynote was talking about the corporations who control global food networks and I quoted this thread in my question.
How can we address food related health issues when there is no proper education about nutrition/healthy eating & cooking at school level and in medical training, in the face of decades of societal conditioning by corporations?
People will clutch onto the spurious arguments we've seen above because they like the taste of animals and they've been led to believe it's necessary to do so, and acceptable.
The bottom line is, eating animals is unsustainable, unhealthy for us and the planet, an absolute horror show for 65 billion animals per year and morally unjustifiable.
As a species we absolutely must change the way we think about eating animals because the planet's health, and our own, depends on it.

@Knittedanimal why do you assume that you are right and everyone else's view is spurious and not based on any evidence?
I also have a strong interest in nutrition, have done for many years and have been vegan in the 90s, was veggie until my early thirties and have eaten meat for the last decade. I survived as a vegan, I put a hell of a lot of work into it, but I can't argue that I'm healthier now, even with far less time and energy to dedicate to it.
You're right that eating meat at the current level isn't sustainable, but also many advocates also acknowledge that veganism for everyone isn't sustainable too, at least not without significant change - there would be many compromises there too.

Track your meals for a week and calculate your average protein intake. It’s nice that your BIL cares enough to advise you to increase your protein levels as it’s something that could really help a lot of older women in particular.

Whether you eat meat or fish or not doesn’t matter. What matters is eating sufficient protein. Meat and fish is not the only source of protein.
You can get enough protein not eating meat or fish at all. I’m not vegetarian or vegan but I know this.

I eat meat around twice a week and don't eat fish at all
Many people don't eat meat 3 times a day, in fact I doubt most do