What is going on with people?

[Emptyandsad]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/05/gen-z-men-baby-boomers-wives-should-obey-husbands

Society seems to be going backwards! I always thought that, generation after generation, we were generally, slowly, becoming more equitable...

But they don’t earn enough to pay the bills, that’s the problem. I see so many useless men who have had all the advantages of patriarchy barely scraping by while women are running laps around them still complaining about “gold diggers”. It’s laughable - what gold?!

If a man has the financial resources to be able to comfortably support a wife and children then he can of course look for a SAHW who will take on that sort of role, but expecting the woman to also go out and work and still do everything in the home? Fuck that.

These men are not having a masculinity crisis - they are having a stupidity crisis. If they do not have the wherewithal to make a decent go of things and earn good money given all their advantages it’s as a result of their stupidity.

I'm in my sixties and most of the women I know did the lion's share of childcare, cooking & cleaning even though they also worked full-time.

I didn't understand this in my twenties as I couldn't see any advantage for the women when they dating. I ditched one boyfriend when he asked me to iron his trousers after only a few weeks together - I think he was testing me.

I think a lot of women do this to secure the man they are interested in in case another competitor gets him. I think fear of being alone/not finding a man who is interested enough in them to risk sharing the workload equally.
Some women used it almost as a selling point to win a love interest over.

I had a look at the study. Weirdly, they didn't include the Middle East or Africa.

Agree

This. Doesn’t exactly make them attractive partner material does it? Most women will throw them back once they make their views clear.

It’s scary, I’ve had to financially support so many men in my life and even now own my house outright on my own, it was so normal do this and be independent for my generation. I am in my mid 50’s and have become increasingly alarmed at the misogyny and attitudes to women and girls. I am afraid that the demographic who seem to be obsessed with looks/cosmetic surgery have played into this narrative that women are there to make men feel good. I don’t buy that women are purely doing it to make themselves feel better. It is so sad to see genuinely beautiful young women seeking a perceived perfection, not recognising their natural beauty. When I was young, the natural look was fashionable, people commented on my skin or hair. I barely wore make up. It just wasn’t cool to be over made up. I do think feminism is all about having the choice so i am not judging, it just feels wrong and out of sync compared to my experiences . And of course I am furious with these pathetic men leading and spreading this shit!

Right wing thinking. Better get used to it, there's a lot of mugs out there.

The rise in fillers etç is partly a result of social media/smartphones etc. teenage girls and younger women have lóng been targeted by advertiser's telling them that looks are everything and that their looks aren't good enough and that they need to spend money to fix this. Now though its normal to have those negative messages being generated constantly on a small device you take with you everywhere. And you aren't just seeing unattainable beauty standards on celebrities, you see it in filtered photos of your own face. What HAS changed is I think young men are being targeted by these negative messages far more than they used to. Hence the rise in male body dismorphia and looks maxing. And very cynical older male influencers who use this insecurity to push negative messages about women. So rather than blaming advertising, the commercialisation of insecurity the resentment is targeted at women for being shallow.

They will soon change their tune when they find women have changed since the 40s and won’t accept this any more.

so worrying. My teenager is unfortunately displaying these beliefs now and thinks we should go back to the 50s where the men went out to work and the women stayed at home to look after the babies 🙈 Also he believes that women should obey their husbands. I don’t know where he’s got these beliefs from as it’s not a reflection of how he’s been raised, he’s also found religion lately!

I think this is more to do with the far left, whose encouragement of people entering the country who have backward ideas about women and their roles in society. Also our institutions that are a breeding ground for extremist views. The women that have fought so valiantly for the freedoms with we have had, would be turning in their graves.

Give me strength. The headline figures are a agglomerate of a survey of 29 disparate countries, including liberal Northern European, USA and Australasia, Muslim-majority countries such as Indonesia and Türkiye, socially conservative societies such as India and Singapore and Catholic-majority countries in South America. There are wide disparities in the responses due to religion and culture, and some of these places are growing increasingly conservative, not less so. For example, in Indonesia, the Ministry of Religion reported that in the 1960s, only a minority of Muslims were practicing daily prayers, but this has since drastically changed due to increased activity by Islamic organisations, internal migration, greater contact with the Middle East etc. Younger generations will be much more socially conservative regarding gender roles because of this, not because they’re watching Andrew Tate videos. Please also note that conservative attitudes to gender in liberal countries will measurably increase when there is migration of people from countries with those prevailing attitudes. It doesn’t mean that all your sons and husbands are suddenly getting more misogynistic. Stop watching “Adolescence” for the source of your news and start actually looking at and interpreting statistics instead 🙄

Can you be more specific about what you consider 'far left'?

Well, it’s only going to get worse. One of the most common names for babies currently born in the UK is M’h’ed.

Other than Oliver, the most common name for babies born in the UK is Moh’m’d.

And? Stop being so islamophobic

Do I not have a right to be? Is there some sort of blasphemy law in the UK? If I can criticise Christianity and Judaism, why can’t I criticise Islam? Why can’t I state the obvious instead of skirting round the issue?
Most importantly, why can’t I use my own lived experience as a religious minority in Muslim majority Turkey as context for my real concerns?
Why can’t I call out the misogyny directly emanating from the source? Why do I have to vilify the only people who actually have democratic views (western nations and their culture) and endlessly defend, turn a blind eye to and appease a religion that is at best conservative and at worst actively harmful to the society harmony of the nation, to the point that Ataturk had to ban religion from public life, the Iranians had to endanger their own lives to oust from their country, the gulf countries have to curtail. Why not?
Also, why are the ugliest values in human history respected just because they are part of ‘their culture’? When did we start having such low standards for human behaviour?

The obeying part is wrong. The idea of a woman 'choosing' to stay at home and look after the babies if affordable as a family is commendable.

In addition to your post slipperyghost,more & more young people are finding religion hence the huge rise in the sale of bibles amongst GenZ,nothing wrong with that either. If exploring spirituality gives them comfort in this troubled world why criticise their choices.

With some luck, alphas won't be so daft. Mine are their own people know they will work hard and play fair.

The 'manosphere' is a huge influence currently and makes so much money that it's not slowing any time soon.

What's interesting is that many of these young men are happy to spout such nonsense online and to partners but like to hide it from their Mothers.

There are a few SM accounts of women who confront such momentous twats with the consequences of their actions by forwarding messages to their Mums.

I'd wager that the vast majority of Gen X and Y (millennial) women would be furious to hear this from their sons. I would absolutely verbally annihilate mine, for sure!

Once again though - it's not our problem to 'fix' is it?

Why does the expectation to effect change never sit at the feet of other men?

If men really care about the opinions and judgments of their peers, why don't more speak up and call out poor behaviours when they see them?

Do men need their own version of 'See it. say it. Sorted!' ?

The thing is though, this idealised idea of the Sahm only really seems to have existed in very middle class circles, or Madmen.

Everyone's mum worked in the 80s and 90s, but it tended to be shit jobs and based around the husband's working hours. Mums were the barmaids, dinner ladies, lollipop ladies, part time shop staff, mobile hairdressers, seamstresses, cleaning ladies. But they were still expected to put tea on the table. They baked because it was cheaper than buying shop cakes. And if the oven was on to roast the joint for the week, you may as well use it.

My grandmothers ( 30s,40s, 50s) worked in factories. Their kids were palmed off on anyone who'd have them.

Sahm in the form people seem to think, was a privilege enjoyed by a few.

Although working class men on average spent more hours on housework per week than middle class men did. Still less than their wives (who also worked) and likely some men were lazy shits who did nothing. But it was still fairly normal for someone's dad to come back and do the tea while his wife was on late shift even if it was baked beans on toast. Or to spend part of the weekend on housework with his wife. It wasn't considered "unmanly" even if men tried to avoid it.
There's an idealised version of traditional families/masculinity which is based on a 1950s American middle class minority which never really applied here.

This is from the early 1980s so only about 45 years ago but there's a variety of opinions (and ages)

They're in for a shock. It takes two full time incomes just to buy or rent a house now, let alone pay for nursery/childcare. Gen Z are not going to be keeping sahm or having any children whatsoever unless this horrible economic situation is dealt with.

Being a sahm with no financial security net is too vulnerable a position to put yourself in anyway. Men simply aren't trustworthy enough to do the job properly and not want a divorce because they're too lame to cope with being a father.

We work really hard with our two sons to make sure they aren’t influenced by any “manosphere” crap. DS2 recently helped a female friend recognise that her boyfriend was displaying a lot of red flags (they are all 14) by being jealous when she spoke to other boys at school on school projects and then telling her he was joining her sports club to keep an eye on her as there were some other boys friend school there - plus other identifying things.

They have grown up in a house where all housework is shared, and bother have been doing their own laundry since the age of 10. Prior to that they helped.

Yet I am still concerned about influences beyond our home. So much toxicity about.

the book the 48 laws of power is a good read that balances history with different strategies