Are we setting autistic children up to fail?

[JandJay]

I say this as a mother with 2 autistic children.
my youngest is 8 but my eldest is 25.
Thinking about my eldest at school there was so much understanding and kindness, exceptions were made for him and he was accepted for his differences.
At work there is no such thing and life has been tough for him.
Our daughter is also autistic, she’s only at primary school but has the same understanding and supportive approach at school which makes her feel accepted right now but I can’t help thinking it’s only autistic children that have that support and understanding and once they are adults they are not seen as the vulnerable children they once were and have a very harsh reality when they held to the expectation of everyone else as adults.

I used to think it was good that we had SEN in schools now, especially as I was undiagnosed and had a terrible school experience, i’m not saying that was better but being an autistic adult is hard, are we not just shielding them from the reality of adulthood?

Weird post. It’s not usual for autistic kids to get 1-1 support in school even when they have an EHCP. But your post implies that it’s standard.

Well that really depends on how their autism impacts them
My son was diagnosed at three and is neatky 16 hes severely autistic non verbal, will need 1:1 care his whole life he wont be facing the realities of adult hood because cognitively he's not able too.

People with the variety of asd allows for independence (we really need a work) to find careers that suit their traits. Then with reasonable accommodations, they can succeed.

Even when dd got diagnosed, her evaluation included advice to avoid certain types of careers and to play to her strengths. I have done very well for myself. My career requires that I spend most of my day in isolation in hyper focus staring at numbers and thinking. Occasionally I have to go to meetings. People are willing to put up with my quirks because I’m really good at the staring at numbers and thinking part. I am being a bit silly here, but that is essentially my job.

mummy will phone up and blame the adults for allowing them to become dysregulated. The children know this and will shout "give me a movement break now". Not because they need one, but because they know if they kick off enough to get removed, the complaint will be towards the member of staff and the child gets no consequence

You should be SCHEDULING these movement breaks so the child doesn’t become dysregulated in the first place.

If a child is wound up to the point that they’re shouting then it’s already too late.

You don’t appear to have any understanding of sensory overload and overwhelm.

And you’ve shown no empathy for the vulnerable children you’re dealing with - quite the opposite, calling them ‘entitled’ and sneering about ‘mummy’ giving you grief.

You’re clearly in the wrong job.

Not true. My daughter struggled in many ways through school because she always had an adult with her. Trying to get them to stop doing everything for her was hugely difficult. It’s only when she had an excellent assistant in high school that she started to do more for herself at school.

Physically disabled people are not inherently any more resourceful than any other person. My daughter makes her life look easy, but that’s only because she hides the struggles.

Totally agree. I also voted YABU. I am autistic
and have ADHD.

I’m in my 50s and now too ill to work. My life has totally unravelled. I have been told that the stress of years and years of masking is probably a contributing factor to my current ill health.

There have been a number of threads about resilience/lack of resilience amongst children and young people lately, and I think many of the points from those are relevant here.

Trauma during childhood does not make for resilience in adulthood, quite the opposite. The most robust and resilient adults are this way imo because as children they could fail and know that someone was there to catch them and help them get back up again. They could make mistakes without life-long consequences or being ostracised or isolated. In contrast to this, there is a surface 'resilience' which comes from not having your needs, including emotional needs, met on a long-term basis. Instead, you learn to mask and 'fit in', because it is less trouble for those around you and gains their approval. But it often comes at a huge emotional cost, because essentially these 'coping strategies' mean that you're constantly running just to keep up with those around you. And this way lies burnout and emotional exhaustion.

Exactly this.

Movement breaks fosters independence for many. Learning when you need one and being able to take yourself off in order to access lessons can be crucial.

Shocked at such a sneery attitude towards them. Attitudes like this can cause MH issues and certainly did with my dd.

I agree with you OP, and not only for autistic children but the entire approach to SEN education in England is extreme.

But i disagree regarding "acceptance". Accepting differences in the workplace is absolutely something that should progress forward. No one should be mocked or ostracised because of their approach to work, or difficulty to integrate socially.

What isn't sustainable in my opinion is expectations regarding accomodations. What being pushed at school and uni is not sustainable in the workplace, there should be more alignment as kids progress through the education system.

So what is being pushed in schools that you disagree with exactly?

I don't agree.

Resilience is far more complex than how you describe. The same is true for trauma. How we perceive events that happen to us is based on our biology, past experience and support network but also very importantly the meaning we and others assign to an event or experience. The latter element is what concerns me in society at the moment where parents are very keen to assign significant meaning to childhood experiences and label them all as traumatic because they are undesirable. Adverse life experiences don't need to be traumatic and we don't need to shield our children from them. It may be slightly tougher for children with specific ND traits but life can be tougher if you are super sensitive, experienced a big T traumatic event especially when young or grown up disadvantaged in other ways too being poor or from a dysfunctional family.

We have to accept most of us won't have our emotional needs met all the time. Most of us learn to mask to some extent. We go to work and maintain a veneer of professionalism that isn't really us. This involves hiding emotions and feelings often in very stressful circumstances. Of course this has a personal cost but it is necessary to function. We all have neurodiverse traits. Some so called NT people have more extreme individual ND traits than people with a diagnosis. To a certain extent society relies on us all getting on with it as there simply aren't the resources to support every ND person throughout their life in the same way they are supported at school. I've seen it first hand with relatives and it is cruel to build an expectation and reliance on support that simply won't be provided to adults.

The bar is high to get a ND diagnosis and a diagnosis does not get you support in school- need does and the bar is high with this too due to a lack of resources. A huge proportion of ND children don’t get any support in school and most don’t get anywhere near enough or what they should get.

It's not a sneery attitude. If you saw this child, you'd understand. There is no dysregulation at all, they just don't want to do what they're told, and know mum will complain. You need to accept that SOME parents create entitled to children with their attitude. They create children whose learnt behaviour is not cooing with anything. This child wouldn't wrote the title in their book yesterday. One word on a page, offered a movement break in the room, declined, escalated to swearing at me. That's not trauma or an unmet need.

I completely agree with the PP about resilience being needed. Everyone masks to some extent in life.

I agree to an extent OP. My DH and SIL are high school teachers and some of the care plans for kids sound ludicrous. They include things like certain teachers not being allowed to talk to them (usually for PDA diagnoses), having a pass to leave the room whenever they want, not having to complete homework etc. I completely agree with reasonable adjustments but saying they cannot be spoken to someone to me is so unhelpful- in life if a police officer or council worker or social workers for example needs to speak to you you can’t just opt out with no repercussions. SEN children and adults need support to function in the world we have. I understand it’s not ideal for neurodiverse people but for how it’s the world we have.

That’s one child and does not speak for the whole of the autistic child population. If behaviour like that is common in your school, it’s your teaching and knowledge of SEND that is at fault.

You don’t know the child, the diagnosis, the education plan and don’t even work in the school or education.

@Delan3y ?? No but my sibling does all of those things and we talked about it…?

🤣ok

Wow. Way to be rude.

My. Knowledge of SEN is excellent, I'm well trained and provide as much as possible for children with SEN.

The fact remains that SOME children and SOME parents have expectations way above what mainstream can reasonably provide.

Re the child with PDA not speaking to members of staff, I've seen similar to this. Can you imagine being in work. "nah I'm not speaking to the boss, it raises my anxiety so much I meltdown".

For example another child I teach wlhas an EHCP target worded something like "by the end of Y9 X should have 1 in 5 positive interactions with adults and their peers".

20% of the time not being rude is the target. How is that OK?

It isnt just about school and workplaces.

Whatever our challenges are we have to learn to manage with them, makes choices to minimise stress etc but also accept & tolerate sometimes not having everything perfect for us because we live, work & function in groups.

Autism in particular can be perceived externally as highly selfish/with less consideration for the feelings or needs of others. This doesn't mean all people with asd must by default be "given a pass" for intolerant behaviours, it means they need extra help as they grow up to do the best they can, and tolerance (throughout life) from the people around them of what they struggle with.

In recent years I think the trend of "low demand" has been quite damaging in having very low expectations for people with ASD and their ability to learn gradually to accept/tolerate some situations they find difficult and build habits that might better prepare them for adult life. "Reasonable adjustments" have to be "reasonable".

I do feel for parents with SEND children not only because it adds extra challenges to parenting but it must be so hard to see school being so challenging. A different solution must be found to support kids thought surely with the number of children needing support 18k per child along with the normal schooling costs is completely unaffordable and unsustainable? It’s not wonder schools are ‘failing’ to provide this within their budgets it’s hardly their fault.

It's possible the your DC would have fared better if they'd been diagnosed earlier, but not a guarantee. My DS was diagnosed at 11 and still experienced serious MH breakdown in year 10/11. The trigger was years of social difficulties and low level bullying. The school were brilliant about making reasonable adjustments and catering to his needs, but the other kids were just arseholes, sadly.

The bar is high to get a ND diagnosis the sheer proportions of children getting them in recent years indicates that it isnt. Its much easier to get one now than it was in the 90s, the diagnostic criteria were broadened significantly in the DSM IV and V.

Incorrect it’s well known to be underdiagnosed in this country.