Are we setting autistic children up to fail?

[JandJay]

I say this as a mother with 2 autistic children.
my youngest is 8 but my eldest is 25.
Thinking about my eldest at school there was so much understanding and kindness, exceptions were made for him and he was accepted for his differences.
At work there is no such thing and life has been tough for him.
Our daughter is also autistic, she’s only at primary school but has the same understanding and supportive approach at school which makes her feel accepted right now but I can’t help thinking it’s only autistic children that have that support and understanding and once they are adults they are not seen as the vulnerable children they once were and have a very harsh reality when they held to the expectation of everyone else as adults.

I used to think it was good that we had SEN in schools now, especially as I was undiagnosed and had a terrible school experience, i’m not saying that was better but being an autistic adult is hard, are we not just shielding them from the reality of adulthood?

But that isn’t a problem with 1:1 in and of itself. 1:1 does not lead to less independence in most cases.

A 1:1’s qualifications, training and experience and how they provide support should be stated in the child’s EHCP. If it isn’t, the school should work with the parents to tighten up the wording of the SEP in F, including by supporting the parents in appealing to SENDIST if necessary.

LOL

You're lucky to find a person willing to work for the 18k pa!

I think there is a necessity to nurture autistic children but they do need life skills teaching, they need resilience training etc. my dd is autistic and we did take the approach that she needed to function in the real world, her first specialist wasn’t a fan of segregation at school of what was the called Asperger’s syndrome. I fought for mainstream and my DD is now an independent adult, it worked for us as an approach but dc are all different

It doesn’t have to be £18k pa. It can be more. Although LAs won’t provide more unless forced. The LA is responsible for ensuring the SEP in F is received. That includes ensuring there is sufficient funding. That duty is absolute and non-delegable. As LAs have been shown time and again in court, lack of funding, resources or staffing is not a lawful excuse for breach of their duty under section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014. If it takes more funding to provide provision in F, it is possible to secure this. It often takes the threat of enforcement action or following through with action. Via this route, I know DC whose EHCPs have far more funding attached and whose HLTAs/TAs/LSAs receive more than the typical wage, including one whose is paid at the level of the teaching MPS because that is what it took to fulfil the duty.

In other European countries it's the teachers who move classrooms at secondary and the children stay in the same place. Seems more logical to me - having a small number of sensible adults move around the building rather than hundreds of kids.

It doesn't mean that autism leads to lack of qualifications. I know someone ( very well) while was born in 1962. Went to regular school and 6th form. Was considered a bit odd but brilliant. No special adjustments made for him. He was( and still is) very rule bound. So didn't cause any issues. Left with 3 A levels in languages despite never having left the country

He was able to work but did struggle with taking rules too literally which caused issues. In the end he started his own business which he did for over 30 years until COVID.

Tried this in covid, nightmare. Could never find anything, kids became territorial about their space, any subject needing specialist equipment was 10 times harder.

You have to be joking OP, what a sad outlook. You're fortunate that your DC had such a good experience at school, but the SEN provision and understanding is not that good everywhere. I wish DS11 could have that experience but sadly his teachers seem to have no idea how to teach or interact with a child with ASD or what the best behavioural strategies are.

What when needing to use science labs or gymnasium

Slow clap.

Quote away about the law etc, doesn't change the reality of LAs having no money, appeals taking time of parents and staff to achieve, etc etc etc.

Sure I've read your stuff before. Pie in the sky for most parents unless they dedicate hours to it.

18k is the reality, and well trained is unusual.

Either way, parents should be teaching and modelling independence too. Now screaming unmet needs every time their child is given a consequence.

My feeling is that supporting vulnerable children so that they have the best possible chance of completing their education, and can develop coping strategies in a supportive rather than an deliberately traumatic one gives them the best chance of growing up able to cope with more. Which is an investment in the future not just of the individual but of the country.

Appeals take time, yes, but it is possible. Many who have 1:1 have had to appeal for it anyway and it can be part of the same appeal so no extra time for another appeal required. Then, once it is in F, it can be enforced, including via JR if necessary. Yes, it takes time, but, again, is possible and not pie in the sky.

1:1 doesn’t mean parents aren’t modelling independence.

I do think that teaching coping strategies and skills to get along in the world are important. Autistic children do need to learn how to manage discomfort and to develop the confidence that comes from knowing they can survive discomfort - but you can't achieve that by launching someone into an extremely intolerable situation without support or strategies. People feel more able to take on challenges if the discomfort feels containable rather than overwhelming.

It would be wrong to go back to how we were when autistic children left school broken and brutalised, but it would also be wrong not to equip today's children with the skills they need for the wider world.

For instance, there's been research reported that wearing noise cancelling headphones and ear defenders can make noise sensitivity worse because the brain loses the ability to manage competing sounds and differentiate speech from background noise. Things like that are well-intentioned but can be damaging when over-used, so we're not getting the balance quite right.

And there will be a workplace out there that doesn't treat your son as badly as his current place.

Yes, it takes time, but, again, is possible and not pie in the sky.

The time (and education level) is something lots of parents don't have.

1:1 doesn’t mean parents aren’t modelling independence

Don't think I've said it does. I've said 1:1 can (in some cases) breed dependence. I've also said that SOME parents don't model independence, and instead model "unmet needs complaints" if sanctions are used.

Surely there just need to be a balance? A reasonable amount of support offered, but resilience, consequences and encouraging independence needs to be prioritised.

If you try to eliminate any discomfort and consequences a child may face and offer endless support then you are setting them up to fail, as OP is right, the adult world is nothing like that.

Your post didn’t say some.

There are many reasons parents may not enforce their DC’s rights. I haven't said otherwise. That is why I said parents should be supported to appeal then enforce the EHCP. Personally, I think all parents should be supported to challenge LAs and enforce their DC’s rights rather than accept unlawful behaviour. Allowing unlawful behaviour to go unchallenged results in the most vulnerable pupils being failed further, which you may feel is acceptable, but I don’t.

Allowing the level of abuse teachers face daily to go excused by SEN is directly leading to good teachers (who make excellent provision for SEN students) leave the profession.

Parents should take more parental responsibility and parent properly with boundaries, consequences and raise independent (as far as possible) adults.

Unlawful behaviour from students is my biggest concern right now. Being abused daily because the EHCP says so, isn't acceptable.

But you don't care about teachers, as you've shown with your comments. All you care about is showing off with big words about the LA and the law.

I haven’t excused any abuse. You are making that up.

Who do I appeal to then? Or do I not matter because I'm "just" a teacher.

I have no right to appeal, yet the parent and child can apparently legally be rude to me. That seems fair.

Can you please quote where I have said abuse is acceptable? Or where I said parents and children can legally be rude? Or where teachers don’t matter? You can’t, because I haven’t. Stop lying.

My posts were about 1:1 not leading to dependence and how to secure qualifications/training/experience along with how 1:1s should be deployed in F, then enforce the provision.

Strange thread. The answer is to ensure workplaces are supportive, not to be hard on kids at school.

My friend is autistic and her workplace have been fantastic.

My experience as an autistic person is the opposite, that schools are the least accommodating places I’ve encountered. Work adjustments have been straightforward to put in place for me and also as an adult we have choices about the kind of work we do and what kind of environment that is in. At school, young people are thrust together in big groups and with a single way of doing things. Adulthood is easier ime.

I agree.

To build resilience and good coping mechanisms kids need safe spaces in which to fail and learn from it. That's really hard in mainstream.

I'm also aware that it's no minor thing to enjoy school and childhood. My eldest has Fucked MH but high grades. I'd rather he was happy and working in McDonald's right now. He is as miserable as sin at top uni fucking his mh up even more. He is broken I can't see him ever functioning in a job.

My second eldest goes to a amazing school where he can get it wrong and the school asks how he wants to fix it. They then get him to make that happen. It's a SEN school. I like that ethos "so what do you want to happen to fix this? So make it happen then".

I have taught in several countries and the children moved around the school.
You can not teach Science, DT etc in a normal classroom.