Please watch Tony Benn talking about Iran and Palestine....

[smurnun]

...sorry, I mean Iraq though it might as well have been Iran and Palestine

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6jEs-QezInA

I wonder what Tony would think of what the US and Israel are doing at the moment. Will the international community continue to insist that Israel and the US stop bombing Iran and prevent the conflict widening?

I respect the late Tony Benn a great deal. I wonder what his thoughts would have been on a regime that murdered 30k of its own citizens, simply for wanting the same freedoms that his generation fought so hard to achieve?

The international community has no sway with Trump whatsoever. Neither does the uk. We just have to sit and watch and take his nasty comments. I think what Tony Benn thought isn’t relevant in 2026. Times have changed.

You know he would have a Brexit supporter don’t you.

I did not agree with many of the things Tony Benn stood for, and his six month deputy leadership campaign in 1981 was a gift to the Tories. He was however a man who stood by his principles and consistent, so the people who voted him in as their MP knew who they were voting for.

I had a low opinion of Benn when he was alive. I see no need to review his comments now he isn't.

The watchdog group used by the UK govmt came up with a figure of under 4K and this included security personnel and accidental deaths. The 30K came from external groups who refused to give sources or details of where their information came from. Either way, not a reason or an excuse to bomb, and I would imagine that Benn would have been absolutely aware of the real reasons why the bombing was happening and also realise the utter danger it all poses to everyone in the world

A lot of people were and still are.

Why did you have a low opinion? What did you disagree with?

In relation to whether or not times have changed, it was Netanyahu who pushed for the attacks on Iraq and indeed some commentators think that both Iraq and what is happening now is connected with the same geopolitical ideology.

Not relevant to Iran, but what did you disagree with, just out of interest?

You are the second Mumsnetter today to suggest that the number of people murdered in Iran is exaggerated. Do you have links to back up what you saying? You may be new to MN so not appreciate it is the norm here.

Undoubtedly.

And you also know he would have been eloquent and forensic in his arguments and not blathered a load of bollocks about "sovereignty".

He would also have seen it as a shill for fascism - which I have a vague memory he wasn't keen on.

My abiding memory of Tony Benn - and Edward Heath - was their quietly being accused by a screaming harpie of being "yellow cowards" on Question Time just before the first Gulf War, which they opposed.

David Dimbleby had to step in and tell the dreadful woman that both Benn and Heath served with great bravery in the war and that she should shut the fuck up (I may have projected that last 😀)

He was totally lost in socialist goodness. A bit too much.

Concorde though.

I liked Tony Benn, he put his money where his mouth was. Didn’t he give up his Hereditary title.

He did.

He was mainly wrong, of course. However he was able to advance his case without soundbites.

Regarding Brexit, his main criticism was the rather stitched-up way that federalism was being advanced. As he often noted there are many many other ways to create a unified geographical entity that are not federal.

I don't think I suggested anything, I gave bare info about what different groups have said.

Are you aware of what the UK government website says? If not it is worth having a google as it sets out who has said what.

In relation to the group which said it was around 30K, I think Al Jazeera and some US outlets have some articles. They also compare with figures in relation to 12 day war last year, in relation to losses, and also in relation to the protests a few years ago in relation to Amini, in relation to which there was significantly less disparity.

Benn hated the Iranian regime!

He worked with the Shah in the 1970s and acknowledged how far right the regime was when it came to power.

You do know that Iran has executed 5,000 people just for being gay since 1979?

Regime change has never been achieved by air strikes. What is happening in Iran, what has been happening in Iran, is horrific but now, to borrow from Tony Benn's phrasing they have two reasons to be terrified and Iranian mothers have more reasons to weep. It's not just the "accidents" like killing 160 young children, it's creating an environment where the regime is cornered and fighting for existence, which is not safer for the Iranians. It is also very rare for a country under an ideological authoritarian regime to just become a free democracy. A well thought out, international cooperation to liberate Iran and support a developing democracy (with no Boards of peace with dodgy membership) maybe. But this, no.

And yet weirdly has a thriving trans scene.

And it's the same in Pakistan. Death penalty for being gay but state funded surgery if you want to transition.

Professor Alex Sharpe once said on the BBC that the UK needs to be more like Iran and Pakistan because of their approach to trans rights

Germany and Japan in 1945 might want to have a word with you about regime change never being achieved by air strikes

I would ask, as a woman, if others would rather live under the regime of the Shah or the Ayatollahs? See also, the Taliban. Iran and Afghan are countries who once did things differently, in quite recent history.

Does this mean I think the current conflict is well done and anything other than an insane, destructive power grab by leaders who don't have a clue? No.

I don't think Tony would have said much different. He was a damn sight brighter and more principled than most world leaders we're suffering at the moment.

And why do you think that might be? It's not difficult to work it out, and there is nothing weird about it.

accused by a screaming harpie
I'm sure your confusion has nothing to do with your misogyny.

His almost unconditional support for trade unions even those badly led. Some of the areas of public life he thought should be in public ownership. His belief that most people were interested in politics when most want a quiet life with adequate means.

Above all, the deputy leadership campaign against someone who had been one of the best defence secretaries of modern times, then a chancellor who had been stitched up by wrong treasury advice (no need ever to borrow from the IMF), taking six months of the Labour Party arguing with itself whilst the Thatcher government destroyed industry and created mass unemployment.

I haven't thrown away the letter my father had from him in response to one lobbying for support for aid and better trade terms for developing countries though.

As I understand it the only reason is that Islam has nothing to say about transsexuals.