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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I am not a "person who menstruates"

211 replies

auserna · 01/03/2026 15:22

AIBU to think that terms such as "birthing person", "partner with eggs", "womb-carrier", "cervix haver", "people who menstruate", "chest-feeder" are not only insulting to women but downright hurtful to those who have any gynaecological and/or fertility issues, including DSDs?

Those terms may be considered inclusive to/by people whose gender identity doesn't match their sex (c.0.5% in the UK) but are exclusive to those with DSDs or gynaecological issues (c.12% in the UK).

NB My figures are rough, partly because the statistics relating to people with DSDs are very contentious and because "gynaecological issues" is a broad term, but they are clearly significantly higher for the latter group.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 02/03/2026 22:51

I always find it interesting that people respond emotionally to posts that may have lots of information and valid pints that are factual and relevant but will choose not to read and take in that information because someone has not delivered the information in the tone that the reader wants. Rather than reading the information and evaluating it as an information source independent to the emotional response.

Catiette · 02/03/2026 23:08

You know, I just reread your reply, Satin, and see (I think) that you're accusing Rhino of prejudice, not me. Without going through her posts with a fine toothcomb, my feelings about her words are likely very similar to my feelings about my own. I've found it hard to believe how generously patient she's been on this thread - she's slipped into irritation far less than me. And she's sometimes somewhat scathing about the ideology (as am I), yes, but prejudice!?! Do people realise that this freely chucking around words like "hate" and "prejudice" in response to reasoned criticism of ideas and behaviours is actually making people less able to recognise and address actual hate and prejudice? It really worries me. Anyway, in the light of this I don't want to draw any further attention to it, but did just want to update my previous reply.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 02/03/2026 23:26

SatinPajamas · 02/03/2026 20:33

Oh dear.

Do you realise that automated branded a person sexist because they are transgender or don't have a problem with transgender people is an example of prejudice?

The concept of ‘transgender’ cannot exist without sexist stereotypes.

Employing sexist stereotypes is….. sexist.

mathanxiety · 03/03/2026 00:12

auserna · 01/03/2026 15:44

No, I'm not from the past and I know this isn't a brand new phenomenon, but I just this afternoon saw a video referring to "partners with eggs".

Do we ever see notices relating to 'partners with semen'? I think not.

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 06:40

NoSoupForU · 01/03/2026 16:00

Right, so a minority. In the UK there are about a quarter of a million trans people. You hear the sensationalist stories on social media and in the gutter press about a handful of them. So called trans activists are campaigning primarily for inclusiveness are they not? And it isn't entirely beyond the realms of possible for people to be able to coexist quite peacefully, just minding their own business.

Very very few sex crimes are committed by trans people. They are predominantly committed by men, as we know. But some sex crimes are committed by women, yet I don't hear all the hysteria of how a female pervert could be lurking in the toilets or changing rooms. It's like people have lost all ability to assess a situation and risk for themselves now.

I am just reading this thread from the start now and I am not sure whether the following points have been already posted.

There is more than one consideration for safeguarding polices for lowering the risk of harm to female people. One aspect is safety, another is for privacy and dignity and another is minimising various other harms that female people might face using that provision- whether it is a service or a facility.

There is no controversy to state that male people commit sex and violent crime at a rate higher than female people. We can use current UK prison statistics to understand the risk rates between the sex categories. The point is that male people with transgender identities do not commit sex offences at the same rate or lower than the general female population. They continue to commit sex offences at least at similar rate as the general male population. I am happy to post FOI information for you if you want.

We have plenty of evidence now that shows that male people with suppressed testosterone still retain many physical advantages over female people. Including punch power and grip strength. This means that in a situation where a female person was attacked by a male person on suppressed testosterone, they would still very likely suffer from far greater injury compared to if they were attacked by a female person. This risk is an additional consideration for policy decisions. I can post links to studies that show that suppressing testosterone does not remove male pubertal physical advantages.

However, there are also other harms that female people face which support segregation by sex category. For instance, if some male people are included in female toilet access, then some female people will have no toilet access as they will self-exclude (and technically those male people will have access to both male single sex toilets and female single sex toilets).

Yes, there may be 'a female pervert could be lurking in the toilets or changing rooms'. It is less likely than there being a 'male pervert' based on female sex crime prisoner statistics and convictions. But it is a possibility. Safeguarding policies can only take reasonable steps to minimise harm though not completely eliminate it. No policy will completely eliminate those harms.

Then if there is a female 'pervert' and they attack, there is a greater chance that a victim will be able to get away and the victim may suffer less injury. After all, we cannot expect 100% safety.

So, sure. There are 'female perverts'. That risk is taken into account when forming a safeguarding policy.

'It's like people have lost all ability to assess a situation and risk for themselves now.'

Single sex provisions were always there so that female people had less need to have to assess unsafe situations for themselves. It is very weak safeguarding to expect a female person to have to do an instant risk assessment on a male person entering into a female single sex provision to establish whether they are a 'safe' male person or not. Hence, all male people are excluded. Even those who believe they have a right of access to use that provision.

So no. People have not 'lost all ability to assess a situation and risk for themselves now.' What has happened though is that female people have been wrongly told by some groups and educated either directly or indirectly that some male people are not a risk, when they still pose a risk of harm (not just physical harm) to female people. There are even signs in some toilets telling women that some male people should be in that toilet with female people.

No female people should have to do a complex instant risk assessment on that male individual in that situation. They never had to in the past, it was expected that all male people would stay out of female single sex provisions.

NeelyOHara · 03/03/2026 06:49

Lemondrizzle4A · 01/03/2026 16:27

I must go around with my head in the clouds cos never heard of them.

Really? They are all over my local hospital.

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 07:10

Birdsongisangry · 01/03/2026 16:49

I just googled 'chest feeding' and the only NHS reference I can find is advice for trans people. Specifically, people who have had their breast tissue removed but may still be able to feed a baby. Which gives advice about what might be possible, or what complications there may be depending on the surgery they had. The advice wouldn't be relevant to women who hadn't had breast tissue removed, so it would be a bit strange to include it all under breastfeeding.
And theres advice about using both terms, so using the term in addition to breastfeeding, not instead of.

I have no idea why that undermines your identity as a woman OP.

If a female person is able to feed an infant from their nipples, they still have breasts. Therefore they are included in 'breastfeeding' literature. It would not be strange at all to include it under breastfeeding.

By all means, there should be information for any female person who has had a mastectomy to explain that they need to seek individual medical advice. We have seen testimony recently from female detransitioners who have had double mastectomies and who have recently had babies and who experienced trapped milk production. Because they have no nipples now and what breast tissue they had left produced breastmilk and had nowhere to go.

So, any female person who has had a mastectomy should be directed to people who can give them individualised medical advice.

NeelyOHara · 03/03/2026 07:12

Witchcraftandhokum · 02/03/2026 19:31

That's the thing. I'm not obliged to answer your question. I'm not bothered whether you stamp your foot and have a little tantrum about it, I don't owe you anything. All I said was I'm not bothered by terms like these, and you then proceeded to tell me what women who share my view should think. It happens every time it's discussed on here. It's so predictable it's boring.

‘Little tantrum?’ Wow.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 03/03/2026 07:14

Lemondrizzle4A · 01/03/2026 16:27

I must go around with my head in the clouds cos never heard of them.

Maybe you don’t notice them because at a glance you don’t realise they are aimed at you and you’re missing important health information?

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 07:36

Birdsongisangry · 01/03/2026 19:21

This is the start of the NHS page on cervical screening. Would you say this is offensive?

  • 'All women aged 25 to 64 are invited for cervical screening every 5 years to check the health of their cervix. Cervical screening used to be called a smear test.
  • Everyone with a cervix should go for cervical screening.
  • If you're a trans man or non-binary and have a cervix, you can speak to your GP, sexual health clinic or transgender health clinic about getting invitations routinely

I genuinely can't follow your logic in your last paragraph sorry. I don't see how acknowledging there are people who have a cervix and don't consider themselves women, means that you aren't considered to be a woman, or aren't included when using the term women. And comparison to an association with thieves is a bit odd unless you think having a cervix is a bad thing? (I'm not being flippant I've re-read the post and I really can't see how you've come to that conclusion)

Is this the link of the page you were reading?

www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/cervical-screening/what-is-cervical-screening/

I would think that the point saying 'Everyone with a cervix should go for cervical screening.' is a problem. Because if you are a male person who doesn't know what a cervix is, you will probably need to seek advice as to whether you are included in this group.

There is a very rare chance that a male person has a cervix. That will be part of a complex medical condition and if they have it, they will know specifically that they will need a smear test.

I also remember that there was a survey done with women and many didn't know where their cervix was (https://archive.is/BGmuP). I think that this page linked is poorly written as it still relies on a person knowing whether they have a cervix or not.

There are numerous reasons why a person doesn't have a cervix, or doesn't know if they have a cervix or not. This includes the very obvious reason that they are male with a typical male body form which never had a cervix. It also includes language difficulties. It is vital to ensure that information is accessible, clear and accurate for as many people as possible and that page does not do this as well as it could.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/03/2026 07:44

ilovesooty · 01/03/2026 15:54

Where are these TRAs who "get away" with it?

Er, all over the internet?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/03/2026 07:47

Birdsongisangry · 02/03/2026 20:34

As I said in my previous post, ironic that you're still talking about trans women when the subject of the thread - people who menstruate, people who have a cervix, chest feeding etc - all applies to trans men. The (reputable) services that use these terms are taegeting women and trans men. Not trans women.
I'm being criticised for saying TERFs on here are obsessed with men in dresses, yet you're so focused on it you don't seem to have noticed that you've switched the people you're arguing about. You claim that I'm the sexist one and against women, you're forgetting these people even exist, in your focus on sharing your hatred for trans women.

I can sleep soundly tonight knowing that my morals are intact, thanks very much.

It’s a way of distancing the female body and its reality from being a woman. It benefits men just as much, if not more.

Sausagenbacon · 03/03/2026 07:50

My dh went to the doctors yesterday, to have his prostrate checked, and the literature talked about 'people with prostrates'!

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 07:51

Witchcraftandhokum · 02/03/2026 19:31

That's the thing. I'm not obliged to answer your question. I'm not bothered whether you stamp your foot and have a little tantrum about it, I don't owe you anything. All I said was I'm not bothered by terms like these, and you then proceeded to tell me what women who share my view should think. It happens every time it's discussed on here. It's so predictable it's boring.

Yet, you feel free to personally attack posters who do have a different opinion to yours after you expressed your opinion in terms that seemed to have the intention to provoke a reaction. If you don't want people to interact with your opinion, why would you post it on a public forum?

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 07:57

NeelyOHara · 03/03/2026 07:12

‘Little tantrum?’ Wow.

I think that the poster forgets that if they post an opinion on a public forum, that people are free to interact with that opinion any way that they want. If they don't want other women to interact and explain why the terminology does have a negative impact on them and that other women dismissing the reasons with a breezy 'I am fine with it, don't' see the issue' contributes to the collective harm, perhaps they should consider whether the forum is the right place to post their opinion.

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 08:10

'Also I don't understand why you and others in here object to the word TERF - trans exclusionary radical feminist. You don't believe in/accept/agree that trans people have a right to exist in the world with the same rights as other people, ergo trans exclusionary, the position comes from radical feminism.'

The term TERF is a misnomer really. Because most radical feminism centres female people. Even those with gender identities where the female person has rejected the sex category of their body.

Of course, people with gender identities have a right to exist with the same rights as other people. It is hyperbolic to suggest otherwise. The issue isn't that they have the same rights as other people, it is the changes that some of them demand of others. Such as language changes where the rest of society is expected to change established and clearly understood language to be terminology that is less clearly understood by the majority of people.

The point being that has language that has been said to be 'inclusive' for a small group then made the language less inclusive for other groups.

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 08:22

'I'm being criticised for saying TERFs on here are obsessed with men in dresses, yet you're so focused on it you don't seem to have noticed that you've switched the people you're arguing about.'

When is a discussion about language and its use to describe female people and their body processes not relevant also to male people who demand to use female language for themselves or to discuss how using language that is unclear creates a safeguarding issue for female people? The issues are intertwined and discussion of these general impacts to female people are relevant to this thread.

Your posts seem to be intended to shame women who don't share your views through ad hominem attacks, such as declaring that they are 'obsessed with men in dresses'.

Catiette · 03/03/2026 08:28

Thank you so much to Helle. Her posts really show what I mean by so-called "TERFs'" patience, reason and empathy. (And yes, that we include all females is partly why I tend to use TERF cautiously or ironically!) To call this calm, fair-minded assessment of female need a kind of "prejudice" or "hatred" is so laughable that it could only ever expose the prejudice on the part of the person saying this. It's posts like these, set against the bizarre accusations of extremism sitting alongside them, that first confirmed to me the darker side of trans ideology.

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 08:44

Catiette, I think that there are some interesting discussions being had now in academic circles about how society has reacted to a situation where a group's subjective reality based on personal belief has been expected /demanded to be supported as being universal material reality. That article of Holly Lawford-Smith starts to address it and I hope to see more in the future.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 03/03/2026 08:49

Witchcraftandhokum · 02/03/2026 19:31

That's the thing. I'm not obliged to answer your question. I'm not bothered whether you stamp your foot and have a little tantrum about it, I don't owe you anything. All I said was I'm not bothered by terms like these, and you then proceeded to tell me what women who share my view should think. It happens every time it's discussed on here. It's so predictable it's boring.

This is the question - it’s pretty key:
In what way is that not a sexist belief that only some types of minds are right for men and for women?

I see by your somewhat testy response that you have realised that you can’t answer it.

Don’t worry, it’s not just you - it IS sexist to say that a man can have a ladybrain. No trans activist in the history of the world has been able to answer otherwise.

How does a man signify to the world that he is a lady without the use of stereotypes?

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 03/03/2026 08:53

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 08:22

'I'm being criticised for saying TERFs on here are obsessed with men in dresses, yet you're so focused on it you don't seem to have noticed that you've switched the people you're arguing about.'

When is a discussion about language and its use to describe female people and their body processes not relevant also to male people who demand to use female language for themselves or to discuss how using language that is unclear creates a safeguarding issue for female people? The issues are intertwined and discussion of these general impacts to female people are relevant to this thread.

Your posts seem to be intended to shame women who don't share your views through ad hominem attacks, such as declaring that they are 'obsessed with men in dresses'.

Absolutely. And PP seems to have missed the fact that the main drivers for this type of dehumanising language are the men who want to be included in the category of women and don’t want to be reminded that they are not.

If we are broken down into functional body parts, they can sail in and claim ‘woman’ for themselves without pesky biology to impede them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/03/2026 08:54

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 03/03/2026 08:49

This is the question - it’s pretty key:
In what way is that not a sexist belief that only some types of minds are right for men and for women?

I see by your somewhat testy response that you have realised that you can’t answer it.

Don’t worry, it’s not just you - it IS sexist to say that a man can have a ladybrain. No trans activist in the history of the world has been able to answer otherwise.

How does a man signify to the world that he is a lady without the use of stereotypes?

It’s always so very telling, isn’t it.

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 09:00

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 03/03/2026 08:53

Absolutely. And PP seems to have missed the fact that the main drivers for this type of dehumanising language are the men who want to be included in the category of women and don’t want to be reminded that they are not.

If we are broken down into functional body parts, they can sail in and claim ‘woman’ for themselves without pesky biology to impede them.

Yes the basic premise is to destabilise the language around things that a group of people wish to change categorisation of. It is queer theory and post modernist theories at work, isn't it?

Catiette · 03/03/2026 09:14

Re: "men in dresses", a quick word. I don't use this because of its potential to offend, but I fully understand those who do. It feels relevant to point out, in a thread about women's loss of the ability to describe themselves, that there has been a corresponding loss in our ability to describe the opposite sex, and specifically trans-identifying males.

Using the words "woman" and "female" for them, as seems to be preferred makes it impossible to explain our concerns: just like that, we're silenced. We literally can't express our needs or defend our rights as a distinct group of humans. Frightening.

"Trans women" can be similarly problematic for us, in its grammatical equivalency to "disabled women" or "Black women". It feels inappropriate at best (and ableist / racist at worst) to support the view inherent in this phrasing - that a male is just as much a woman as a female in a wheelchair or female person of colour.

"Transwomen" works for me overall, but is still a huge concession on the part of women that's entirely unacknowledged by society. Imagine "transblack" or "transautistic" or "transjewish" or anything, really. These have a sheer, insulting wrongness to them that reflects society's respect for the integrity of the identity being hypothetically "trans-ed". I think it's significant, in contrast, that "women" didn't benefit from the same defence: social conditioning to "be kind"? aeons of perceiving woman as secondary? I think both of these are relevant. In particular, the conception of woman as "other": if male/man is the default, then it stands to reason that anyone who so emphatically rejects their maleness would be shifted into the more accommodating class of "woman". (This ties in, of course, to why "trans woman" highlights the historical othering of "Black woman"). So, in short, "transwoman" can be problematic for some, too.

Where does that leave us? Because of this corruption of our language, any attempt to argue our case is made, quite literally, impossible ("woman"/"female"), or is forced into implying in the very words used a readiness to compromise that's contrary to what we're saying ("trans woman / "transwoman"). These words have obscured the reality of what "trans inclusion" means for women: "trans women are women", after all - it's literally there in the name! The trans campaign has been an act of astonishing cruelty in this sense, to be honest. Transsexual didn't have the same temerity - and did show far greater honesty, with a specificity that permitted wider public understanding.

And the public are entitled to understand this debate, and to draw their own conclusions about it - particular where the dissolution of previous data, rights and, above all of single-sex spaces is concerned. This is where the BBC has behaved so appallingly - they saw it (see see it) as their moral duty to impose "trans inclusion" on the nation through language, in a way that removes choice. It's anti-democratic, frankly - also in the corresponding, dangerous erosion of trust in the media.

(For more on this, people could google "trans inclusion Dentons document" - which explains how undemocratic political strategies were deliberately used to embed the loss of single-sex spaces in law without clear public understanding and agreement - and "Pronouns are Rohypnol"; I find the title of the latter problematic and it's fairly strongly worded for anyone entirely new to this issue, but it makes these arguments about language very powerfully).

Continuing to focus on public understanding, the above has led to a remarkable naivety about what "trans" actually means. Until very recently indeed, cross-dressing was included in Stonewall's "trans umbrella". Many people haven't heard of AGP fetishism or will say it's been disproven, when a brave google (not recommended!) will reveal an infinity of personal accounts, by males, of exactly this. This, too, is included in "trans" now. It's genuinely upsetting to see the damage that this expansion of the concept of "transsexual" has done to the vanishingly small minority of dysphoric males who would previously have fit this description.

When all this is taken into account, there's actually something to be said for using "men in dresses" as one of the few clear descriptors left to women to make their point. It resolves the issues with giving up the word "women" to a greater or lesser degree, and highlights the often-superficial character of male transition from the female's perspective. Because, the fact is, our perception of reality is just as valid as a male's perception, meaning that his internal perception of himself simply doesn't factor when we meet him in a station loo at 11pm at night. It's Talibanesque to say that the woman's instinctual and rational wariness at seeing a male in this context should be subsumed entirely into said male's unspoken conviction that he's female. To her, as long as she retains the right to her own perception of the world, he is, at that moment, "a male who has adopted an outward appearance more commonly associated with women" - "a man in a dress", as shorthand. Despite this, the Overton window has expanded to normalise "transwomen" into something women would be "crazy" to find offensive, and shrunk to squeeze out "men in dresses" as clear evidence of mere prejudice.

I repeat, I don't use "men in dresses" myself for many reasons, including wanting to avoid hurt to anyone who may be distressed by it. I actually dislike it intensely. And I agree that it sometimes indicates genuine prejudice - transphobia exists, of course it does. But is it always a sign of this? Society has taught us that it is, but I think things are actually rather more complex.

Helleofabore · 03/03/2026 09:22

I am sure it has been said before on this thread, but it seems that with the accusations of 'obsessions with men in dresses' we need to address it more often.

When the words that female people use are destabilised so that, for some people, words such as 'women' and 'girls' include any male people who want to claim those words, it means that those words can no longer be used to specifically mean female people. There have been too many instances lately in media where even the word 'female' has been used for a male person.

It is logical then that if 'women' and 'girls' can include male people, that for some people they believe reducing women and girls to body parts makes it clear that they are referring to female people. There is the aspect also that some female people reject the words used specifically for female people such as 'women' and 'girls'. However, making general information on the NHS web pages less clear is harmful to the women and girls who need simple and clear language.

Instead, we end up with someone accepting a well deserved reward for a film about Endometriosis using the term 'people with a uterus'.

I have also seen statistics misquoted by removing the sex category from that statistic making it misleading if they don't recalculate it if needed. Or making it less important by including all of the population. There is a difference between 1 in 10 women and 1 in 10 people (I have picked these ratios at random to make the point).

Destabilising the language that female people need to uniquely describe themselves to include a group of male people was the start and the efforts that we see where we are reduced to body parts or processes are very much a part of that.