To think that the overtime should be paid?

[SorcererGaheris]

In the bookshop in which I volunteer, there are two paid employees - the FT manager and PT deputy manager. (It's a charity shop.)

I've been aware for a while that the charity does not pay the shop's employees for any overtime they do (which is probably the main reason that the deputy manager generally refuses to work more than her contracted hours.) But I assumed that since this was the case, they could therefore not expect employees to do overtime, since it's not paid.

However, the manager is under pressure to keep the shop open for longer during the week and to also keep the shop open on Sundays when the volunteer team for that day are unable to come in. Sunday is the one day when there is no paid member of staff in the shop and it's entirely volunteer led, but but occasionally there are times when the volunteers can't come in to do their shift and when that happens the shop is closed on that Sunday.

From a recent conversation I had with the manager, it seems that the charity does indeed expect her to do unpaid overtime, and there is so much pressure that it seems she is more or less almost forced into doing it.

Discussing this with other volunteers, I learned that the charity offers time off in lieu for unpaid overtime, and that it would be in the employment contract. Time off in lieu would be reasonable IF taking additional time off was usually a practical possibility, but given the nature of charity shops relying on a staff of majority volunteers, taking additional time off is often NOT a practical possibility.

So what seems to happen in practice is that the manager ends up doing overtime that is completely unrenumerated in any way.

This set-up seems unfair to me. In typical retail, I imagine time-off in lieu of payment for overtime would be more reasonable, because all the staff contractually have to be there, so there're more flexibility and consistent cover. This is not the case with charity shops.

Given the nature of charity shops, I think that the charity should either commit to paying any overtime they demand - or at the very least, they should not put pressure on their employees to do the overtime when they're aware that it can't really be compensated.

@BillieWiper

To be fair, I don't know whether or not the overtime she does do amounts to her getting less than minimum wage (and there are times when she doesn't do the overtime) - the idea that it might reduce her overall wage to below NM is a possibility that was raised, but I have no idea if that actually happens for a fact.

But no, I've thought for a long time that this charity is not a great employer (for employees at this level, at least.)

Fair enough. I think you'd better just try and forget her, at least in terms of her hours and workload. If you still actually don't mind working there yourself? I mean they don't deserve you if they treat their paid staff so poorly. But maybe other large charities are similar?

"People treat you the way you let them " is terrible victim blaming.

I always think it’s so weird that people go along with this.

this isn’t you know, enforced. This is some dilbert in the charity (who I bet is junior and powerless) who is making their life easier by bullying another employee who is physically distant from the centre therefore the real powers that be can’t “see” it happening.

as someone who leads a business with lots of regional activity this is absolutely typical the manager needs to see it for what it is - a powerless person taking an easy option.

@BillieWiper

I enjoy volunteering there; I find the work fun, which is the sole reason I do it. I don't volunteer there out of any interest in the charity and its work itself - I'm just a bookish person who likes reading and mostly enjoys the tasks that I do there.

The issue also isn't something that plays on my mind an awful lot; it's just something I feel generally isn't fair, but it usually doesn't impact my overall experience of being there.

@Itsmetheflamingo

Some people just aren't very good at standing up for/advocating for themselves.

Or sometimes they'd rather avoid the additional hassle that advocating for themselves might bring about.

It would be interesting to know the remuneration of the charity's CEO. Ah, in 2025, £125,418. Not as ridiculous as some charities, but I doubt that job requires unpaid overtime.

But I think they think they are advocating for themselves against the might of the whole charity. In reality, if they expose the person who pressurises them to do overtime it’s likely that person who will be dealt with.

This isn’t a charity or management decision. It’s just a rouge ineffective or lazy manger

@Itsmetheflamingo

I get the opposite impression - that it's an intrinsic element of how the charity operates, not just a rogue individual.

@Bikergran

I wouldn't necessarily assume that being CEO doesn't come with unpaid overtime. I don't know if it does, of course, but being CEO of such a large organisation is a big responsibility (hence the salary) and I can imagine unpaid overtime could well be expected of it.

But it could be argued that a certain amount of unpaid overtime is a reasonable expectation when someone is being paid a very decent salary. Whereas charity shop managers are not paid very highly.

This person is just choosing to work for no pay. She doesn't have to.

You can't help someone who doesn't want help. Just let her get on with it, it's her life, not yours.

This. All this being intimidated and scared into giving up their own Sunday to work for free is bonkers, and gives martyr vibes

My friend was a manager in a charity shop (oxfam) and had exactly this issue.
She changed jobs.

I would be permanently unavailable on Sundays. Clearly the current staffing set up doesn’t work, and their request is entirely unreasonable.

I would be reviewing my contract, and contact my union asap. Additionally, I would be taking all of my TOIL - not her problem.

It sounds like the issue is more about volunteer management and recruitment and she is only covering the Sunday because that side of things is not up to snuff. Is she responsible for recruiting and managing volunteers or is she being put upon because someone else isn't doing their job well enough?

@RawBloomers

She doesn't actually usually cover Sundays, because we have a Sunday volunteer team (of which I am part) who are normally there. But there's only four of us, and so if two or more of us can't come in for that shift for some reason (sometimes something else has come up, or sometimes it's a case of people wanting to take the day off) then the shop needs to close for that day, because covering lunch break isn't practical/possible if there are only two volunteers in the shop (we go out to buy lunch and the shop isn't permitted to be open if there are less than two people present.)

Our Sunday Shift Leader also makes the call that we shouldn't go in on Sundays if it's reached a point where she considers the state of the basement (where those of us not on the till spend a lot of time) to not be entirely safe. This usually happens when the company that collects our our scrapped and culled stock do not show up for several weeks in a row (they're supposed to come every week), meaning that we can end up with as much as 60+ crates of uncollected books, as well as the continuing donations.

@Dutchhouse14

Doesn't surprise me, sadly! I suspect it's probably not just an Oxfam issue, but potentially applies to quite a few of the chain charities.

The situation didn't used to be quite this bad (the current manager took the role in 2019 and said as much) but I do think the roots of these issues have been present for quite a long time.

That’s not what I asked about. Is your manager responsible for recruiting volunteers and overall management of them? Because if she is, having too few to ensure coverage every Sunday is probably ultimately her responsibility and when she does not maintain a pool deep enough to do that, the charity are not unreasonable in holding her responsible and expecting her to make sure the shop is open.

the basement issue is separate, though find it curious you would shut down rather than just not have anyone in the basement - but I may not be aware of what is needed to run the shop.

yes its for a good cause, but yes businesses in general make more profits using methods like this @SorcererGaheris

alot also comes from the area managers to the shop managers too

@RawBloomers

I don't know if the manager is fully responsible for recruiting volunteers; I assume she's partly responsible at least.

The problem is, a lot of people are not willing to do Sundays - which is why quite a few other Oxfam shops in our area don't open on that day. We're different in that we do have a Sunday team who tries to commit to doing as many Sundays as possible, but there are times when it just doesn't happen for either safety reasons (our Shift Leader for Sunday makes that call) or when, as said above, two or more of us have the day off for whatever reason.

So additional volunteer recruitment might not help unless the manager found people who could specifically cover Sundays when the regular Sunday team isn't there.

In general, fewer people are coming forward to volunteer these days - that's of course not the case for every shop, but overall many charities are finding a shortage of volunteers, for a number of reasons.

the basement issue is separate, though find it curious you would shut down rather than just not have anyone in the basement - but I may not be aware of what is needed to run the shop.

The basement is where volunteers who are not on the till spend most of their time working. It's where we sort through donations, price stuff (and look things up online. All the stock that's not out for sale is down in the basement. If no one went into the basement, we'd just have volunteers on the shop floor doing nothing. Our Shift Leader spends the entirety of her Sunday shift in the basement, as she comes in to price her section (History books.)

I recently worked for a charity for a year. There was nothing charitable about how they treated staff indeed HR seemed openly vindictive towards most of us.
A charity shop manager is not well paid, certainly not enough to expect unpaid overtime but somehow these expectations exist that everyone will go over and beyond for free because it’s a non profit employee.

If she isn’t responsible for volunteer recruitment then I’m completely with you about it being unreasonable to expect her to cover the day without overtime or, at least, TOIL. But if she is responsible for recruitment then it’s much more questionable.

Yes, some things are harder to recruit volunteers for and may need specific targeting but if that is part of her role and Sundays are important to the shop (and I can see why weekend days could be important and, specifically, why being consistent about them is important) then that’s part of her job she isn’t succeeding at. It may be that she should be trying o cover a midweek day with volunteers if that is easier to recruit for.

Shutting the shop because no one can sort or price things in the basement (which sounds like it doesn’t have to be happening just because the shop is open) seems like a poor judgement call. What is wrong with just having only those needed to run the shop come in on those days? Or is this a bit of a sop (for want of a better word) to the shift leader who doesn’t really want to be on the shop floor and so doesn’t want to come in if she can’t price? Not an unreasonable position for a volunteer, but may indicate she shouldn’t be the shift leader role - again a point of poor management by whoever is responsible for ensuring good volunteer engagement.

I do get that the manager might not have the training or overall compensation commensurate with the role that’s expected of her. (I don’t know - charities do not have a great reputation as employers, but I don’t think they’re actually worse than retail in general, it’s just people seem to think they should be better). However, if her role is to ensure coverage, then she should be doing that whether it means she covers or volunteers.

Having read the thread thoroughly I wanted to add a few more things.
There is a national volunteer crisis, numbers have dropped each year since covid. Plus employers are now required to give volunteers similar level of mandatory training and personal checks as an employee. I offered my services to volunteer at a local hospice in October and it took until the middle of January for all the checks to come through by which time I actually had found a paid for job, plus a lot of what I needed to do was online and not easy to navigate which I suspect would put off a lot of people ( am still hoping to do a bit for them once I am settled into the new job).

The charity I worked for was not great in many ways but we had an amazing Head of Volunteering and she was very clear that volunteering roles had to be different from paid roles, therefore in that charity it wouldn’t be acceptable for volunteers to be responsible for manning the shop alone and to get round this paid for Sunday only managers would be hired.

It shouldn’t be shop managers sole responsibility to get volunteers. She will have sales targets on top of all the usual work or organising a shop on little more than minimum wage.

And yes the CEOs and directors are usually on good enough salaries, although nothing like private sector levels, still pretty generous.

@RawBloomers

I can't think of anyone else who would be responsible for recruiting volunteers to the shop, so perhaps it is fully the manager's responsibility.

It may be that she should be trying o cover a midweek day with volunteers if that is easier to recruit for.

The other days are already covered and Sundays generally are too - except when the volunteers (for whatever reason) can't or won't come in.

Shutting the shop because no one can sort or price things in the basement (which sounds like it doesn’t have to be happening just because the shop is open) seems like a poor judgement call. What is wrong with just having only those needed to run the shop come in on those days?

I am part of the Sunday Team and we all decide not to come in as a matter of principle when we consider the basement to be so full that it's unsafe. The Sunday team are the only ones who make that decision, so the shop is open every other day when the basement is overcrowded, and closes (temporarily) on Sundays until the collection company shows up to collect the crates.

Opening the shop is not possible in that situation when the Sunday volunteer team are choosing not to come in and none of the other volunteers are willing to come in on an additional day to cover.

And the shop is legally not permitted to open unless there are two or more people in the shop, so there'd be no point to the manager coming in on her own - she wouldn't be allowed to open anyway. There is a paid deputy manager, but she won't do additional hours to her contracted part time ones.

It only takes one person to man the till, so if the other volunteers are going to avoid the basement, there would literally be nothing (on the shop floor) for them to do. They'd be standing/sitting around doing nothing, which would be pointless. Jobs other than the till require going into the basement in order to carry those jobs out.

I do get that the manager might not have the training or overall compensation commensurate with the role that’s expected of her.

IMO, she definitely doesn't get a wage compensation that's commensurate with the overall duties that are expected of her.