Am I overreacting to this teacher’s comment?

[queenkettricken]

I’ll start by saying that I’m a teacher myself -primary. My daughter is in year 7 at high school and today her personal development teacher was talking about stereotypes. He mentioned the stereotype that English women go abroad on holiday, get really drunk and sleep with lots of men.

I’m shocked by the reference to sleeping with lots of people and want to email the school but honestly don’t know if I’m overreacting. I teach in UKS2 and cannot imagine touching on this subject even at the very end of year 6.

Should I accept that this is high school and that stuff like this is ok? Or am I right to be shocked that my 11 year is being exposed to this.

I’m really confused why what the follow up to this comment is not being discussed.

Yes it is a misogynistic stereotype.
Enough people have said it does exist, so why so many people say it doesn’t is again odd.

It could have led to an amazing discussion and really brought home why stereotypes are wrong but no one seems bothered about that.

@queenkettricken
Did you ask your daughter about the follow up to the comment?

You'd think teachers would be educated enough to know what to discuss with 11 year olds?

I've said that OP needs to ask her daughter for more context

Because this is very clearly out of further context and therefore making it look worse

Studies show that the average age is 17-18 though. So the 13s must be outliers.

Sorry yes you have mentioned further context but very few others have.

I would say to your DD that although you understand that she is nervous about what would happen if you speak to the teacher some things are not appropriate and need to be addressed. Don’t go behind her back but explain to her why it matters and why we should speak up when we see an issue.

I think that a male teacher encouraging a discussion of frequent drunken sex and the attitudes towards it with a class of 11 year old girls is extremely inappropriate. He chose the example - there are many alternative examples to choose - so you have to ask why he made that choice.

For many 11/12 year olds understand of the lesson would require explanation of
’sleeping around’
’getting drunk’
’why getting drunk is likely to lead to lowering of inhibitions’
’what are the consequences of to much sex’
given we are in an age group that are only just starting sex ed and probably haven’t yet had the talks on contraception and stds I think this lesson is a little ahead of itself.

I can’t get over your DD crying about this and then saying she doesn’t want to get teacher in trouble. I was a worrier when younger but wouldn’t have reacted like this. Your DD needs to grow up a bit.

Yeah why is a man talking about women being promiscuous? They did not need to use that example at all.

A man who brought up this stereotype with an adult woman would be assumed to be either misogynistic or hitting on her.

Have to say I don’t see the big issue here. Of course it’s an offensive stereotype- that’s why it’s was mentioned in the context of a lesson about stereotypes!

Also, sex is a perfectly normal human activity. Clearly teachers shouldn’t be discussing sex toys, but I don’t see why it should be a taboo subject unless your name is Mary Whitehouse.

In any event, they will have sex ed classes at that age. DS1 watched a lot of Disney Channel shows in the late 2000s/early 2010s and I’m positive there were references to sex without any outcry.

You cannot have a lesson on the harmful effects of stereotypes without mentioning examples of negative stereotypes!

@queenkettricken

Regarding the context of the conversation itself - from what you've said, it seems like the teacher was using this stereotype as an example of how/why stereotypes in general are wrong. So in that context, he most likely wasn't making a sexist/misogynist statement, but holding up an example of a sexist stereotype (prejudice) that should be be criticised.

However, I do think that Year 7 is a bit young to use "sleeping with lots of men" as an example. It doesn't sound like the teacher was at all graphic, which I appreciate - but Year 7s are either 11 or 12, so still a bit young, IMO, to bring up the subject in this way. If it had been Year 9 or above, I'd feel differently - Year 7 still seems a tad too close to young child.

I think the teacher made a simple error of judgement. I can see why it bothers you. It might be best to let this one go, though, especially if your daughter is bothered about the idea of you complaining.

I don't think I came across the concept of stereotypes until media studies in sixth form. That's not to say it couldn't be taught earlier but there needs to be great sensitivity to how it is put across and the particular example given is unhelpful.

You don't want to actually inadvertently mean kids start using and spreading stereotypes when it may have never even entered their head.

I never heard about British girls having this reputation until I heard about tabloids writing this kind of misogynistic shite in my 20s.

A better example would be something that had been actually heard in school. Like a girl being called a slag because she kissed a boy at a party. But again, that could be problematic in Y7.

Yeah but probably not “what’s the right number of sexual partners to have in your view then sir? why do we look on sex with multiple partners as a bad thing? Esp why do we have a double standard about this for men and women? Is this an example of entrenched misogyny sir?” All of which might reasonably be part of a discussion with eg a sixth form class. Kids of 11 or 12 are desperate to learn about sex and sexual norms and he’s effectively brought up the idea that women sleeping with multiple partners is in some way a bad thing. Not his business to do that. Definitely something that’ll fire up the very traditional bullying of girls who are thought to have slept with any/multiple boys.

Why not just leave it as saying English people get drunk in airports or something??

But that's not what the lesson was about.

It's not passing judgement on the idea of drinking or multiple partners

It's about the idea of saying that ALL British women are like this

Just like with everything, as they get older they will revisit concepts to explore them in greater depth regarding what else those stereotypes might mean

Chaucer hasn’t been on the curriculum for years and absolutely isn’t taught to 11/12yo. It’s an A level text if it’s ever even looked at.

Yes but he should’ve kept it to the drinking or getting sunburnt etc… he doesn’t have to start talking about sex to 12 year olds. It’s unnecessary.

If she is that upset I wouldn't.

The risk of her not feeling safe to tell you things is much higher than the benefit of him potentially changing his delivery (which won't benefit her anyway as her class will have already heard it. That's even assuming he takes it on board and doesn't completely dismiss it).

You can always leave it for a while and see if there's anything else that gives cause for concern.

12 year olds will already be learning about sex in PSE. In any event, I don’t see why it should be treated as a taboo as long as it’s discussed sensitively.

Well put.

For those who really can't think of a suitable stereotype (there's been some horrific racist ones on here that I just don't know why you'd think would be a good idea to INTRODUCE to a child) the obvious one would be boys like blue and football, girls like pink and dolls. They'll already be aware of it so it's not introducing offensive views into their experience, and it illustrates the concept well.

Yes exactly: British people (not just women!) getting sunburnt on holiday would work too. Or 'accountants are boring'. There are countless ways you can explain stereotypes without bringing racist and misogynistic language into your classroom.

Those are not particularly offensive though. Harmful yes, but I don’t think anyone is particularly offended by the assumption they like the colour blue.

If that’s not what the lesson was about then why are the other examples people are giving here mostly negative? It’s perfectly clear he meant that as a negative stereotype he thought the kids should be able to argue against/see why it was unfair.

there's been some horrific racist ones on here that I just don't know why you'd think would be a good idea to INTRODUCE to a child

Because the sad fact is it wouldn't be introducing it to all the children, plenty of them will be well aware of horrific, racist stereotypes. The class is designed to challenge that and make children reflect on whether they agree and why stereotypes might be harmful (which is why strong, negative stereotypes are used as examples)