A 9yr Old Shouldn’t have Toilet Accidents

[BeBlueCat]

Dh’s sister and her family drove down and stayed with us last weekend. On the first evening, SIL discreetly asked me for a plastic bag and wipes for DN. It was obvious what had but I didn't say anything, thought it was a one off.
Next day we're at the park, kids run off to play. They come back and she pulls me aside saying he's had another accident and they need to pop to the loo to clean up. She looked embarrassed but seemed like was it was a routinely. I assumed he must have a medical condition.

I managed to ask her about it later and she was very blase. Said it happens when he's overexcited or if he "puts off going". I asked if they'd seen a GP or anyone about it and she just said "Oh no, he'll grow out of it” And that it had gotten better recently.

I was shocked. Surely a child having accidents at aged 9 is a huge red flag for medical attention? And If it happens at school? I can’t began to think how embarrassed he feel about the whole thing. I did want to say something more but didn’t in the end, not wanting to over step.

I think this is a really serious issue that needs proper attention, not a wait and see approach?

Wetting the bed is hormonal though not in the Child’s control so completely different to soiling. Surely seeing a doctor and getting laxatives would help a lot with stopping the accidents?

Well his mother was implying that it was happening because of laziness! I don’t think she would have any reason to lie about seeing a Doctor, what would she gain by doing that? If anything it makes the situation look a lot worse. It would be more respectful and dignifying to him if she said He has a medical issue, instead of saying it happens because he doesn’t want to stop playing.

Likely to be caused by constipation but unless you know about it and you fall lucky with a GP who knows about it you can be stuck for years. The nurses at the ERIC charity are life savers.

we had 4 gp’s at our old practice abd we were on number 4 before I found one who had the first idea how to manage it (straight out of training). We are no longer patients of that practice and dc didn’t grow out of it he had appropriate treatment - and I attended a 3 hour online course run by ERIC - literally life changing for both of us

Yes, it surprises me how many people have said you're unreasonable. I know a lot of parents apparently think it's fine to let teachers toilet train them at age 5, according to other posts (obviously some children have medical needs or SEND, but it's very recent that the majority think it's ok for most children not to be dry), but I would be concerned, and there might well be medical issues, which if you're a close family, I would expect they'd have mentioned if they were already seeing a doctor.

My brother was still crapping himself until he was 10. There was never any reason for it and it would happen at school and at home. Something switched when he was 10 and it just never happened again. Prior to that it was almost like he had no self awareness over it

It’s obviously not ideal he is having accidents at 9, but as others have said, seeing a doctor doesn’t magically fix the issue.

My DS, who’s nearly 11, pooed himself for years after being potty trained. We tried laxatives at 8 for suspected constipation, but they made no difference to the accidents. After further tests, it turned out there was no underlying medical cause and his accidents were due to behaviour, avoiding stopping playing or being reluctant to go in public until it was too late.
We ditched the laxatives, introduced scheduled toilet breaks, and limited screen time He’s not 100% accident-free now, but he’s miles better at managing it, and taking himself off to change instead of ignoring it when it happens.

To suggest that your SIL isn’t taking it seriously just because she hasn’t pursued medical input yet feels unfair. From what you have described it sound does sound like your DN is similar to DS. It might just take time, patience, and a bit of trial and error to figure out what’s going on, something that SIL is probably doing. It’s really not uncommon for boys to have daytime accidents up until teenage years for many different reasons.

It's very possible that there is more to it and she doesn't want to share her son's private medical information with you.

Yes exactly there’s no reason for her to not be honest about it. Not toilet trained aged 5? Bloody hell I really do feel for all primary school teachers out there. We are seeing SIL family next weekend for MIL birthday so think i’m angling towards asking her more about it.

Or a different approach, rather than poke your nose into another family’s personal matter and ask - you could share the suggestion of ERIC as potentially useful to them.

I was like this at age 9. I didn't like going and ended up with a big lump in my abdomen of impacted faeces - basically was still "going" as loose stool, just not clearing it out. I needed various medications and scans (and it scared me out of it). Up to them but it's worth going to the Dr.

My 8 year old still has occasional accidents, I think it's fairly normal.

I had no idea of this condition until my child started soiling. It can take a while to fix so possibly they are aware.

"Encopresis (soiling) is the involuntary leakage of stool, usually caused by chronic constipation, affecting about 1% of 5-year-olds in the UK. It often occurs when children, typically over age four, hold in stool due to pain, leading to overflow incontinence. Treatment in the UK involves laxatives, dietary changes, and behavioral"

Why do you need to ask more about? Just leave it alone.

She doesn't need to be 'honest' about anything. She likely just doesn't want to talk about it which is her right.

Which is exactly what I was planning on and wanted to do as I said previously!

9 is actually the age they consider that a problem and that a child needs to be referred to see specialists

Because I do worry for DN! Sil was happy to discuss his problem so there’s nothing for her to lie about. As i’ve said before saying it’s purely behavioural reflects a lot worse on him!
Just making SIL aware of some of the resources been mentioned on here such as ERIC, is something she appreciate without doubt

I’m sorry to hear about you DS problem. If your saying it was behaviourally caused I do assume he has SEN? I’ve never heard of someone still soiling themselves aged 11 without a direct medical cause.
My DN doesn’t have any SEN so the idea its happening because of laziness seems strange.

Why do you think she wouldn't be already aware? If her son is 9 and having toilet accidents, she is likely very aware of ERIC.

If SIL is so happy to discuss it, why are you going to involve MIL?

You seem to be failing to realise that soiling being ‘bad’ is a learned concept.

Take a step back - we think babies and toddlers soiling themselves is fine. At some point we try and teach them it isn’t. It doesn’t magically swap from being comfortable to uncomfortable, we teach them that it’s not good and that they shouldn’t choose to do that.

If you’ve routinely soiled your entire life, then you quite possibly havent associated the feeling with being bad / wrong / uncomfortable.

Most adults would say wetting is not ok and that sitting in wet pants is uncomfortable. Equally a lot of continent adult women chose to use pads or period pants and routinely sit with wetness in their underwear. When you take a step back, that’s not a materially different sensation to leaking wee.

You said you were planning to ask her more about it. Aka poke your nose in further.

not offer potentially useful material with no expectation of a response.

Maybe a misunderstanding, I said we we were seeing SIL for MIL birthday, I’m not going to involve MIL lol. Maybe she is aware of eric but if she isn’t she would appreciate my helping her. I don’t why so many people are suggesting it’s a private matter I shouldn’t talk to her about? He’s my nephew for crying out loud, and crapped himself on my sofa last weekend. I’m not ‘poking my nose in further’, I’m just worried for him!

It's a private matter because it's a potential medical issue and SIL clearly didn't want to talk with you about it which is her choice. He's her son and you have to respect that.

My DS had very occasional accidents when he was 9, he did grow out of it. But it didn't happen often, probably about twice at that age. It was fairly frequent at 7. It's not all that unusual.

then continuing to play like nothing is up. But this would worry me far more at age 9. I can't really imagine any 9 year old just carrying on doing whatever they were doing after soiling themselves - it sounds like he has very little self awareness.

Just because you are ignorant about it, are you suggesting it doesn't happen ?

Has it not occurred to you that it isn't the sort of thing you wander around telling people about?
Not the sort of thing you might post about on Facebook?
Not the sort of thing you might get a mention in the school newsletter about ?

Flatten down the lumps?