Part time workers and bank holidays. Fair or unfair?

[crunchiesnuts]

I know that it’s completely legal and up to the employer, but I’m just curious about what people think about this.

I’m part of a small team (there are 7 of us in total). Everyone works full time, 5 days a week, except for one person who is part time, working 3 days a week. This person works Monday-Wednesday. When there’s a bank holiday, they switch their days and work from Tuesday to Thursday instead. Like I said, I know this is all above board and our manager is fine with it, but the rest of the team feels it’s a bit unfair since they don’t have a say and have to use their annual leave regardless.

I’m kind of torn on it. I know this person asked to work Mondays when she took the job, so it feels a bit like having the best of both worlds, but I also get not wanting to burn through almost all your annual leave just for the bank holidays. Recently, this person has mentioned how she doesn’t complain about the fact that the rest of us get more holidays and better pay (which is a bit confusing since we work more hours, so naturally, we would), but it’s stirred up some tension in the office, and I guess, some people think she’s rubbing it in their face. I’m just interested in hearing what others think. Even though it’s legal, do you see it as fair or unfair?

But they aren't getting extra annual leave. They don't get additional time off.

And there are studies that show that part timers are a lot more productive per time at work than full timers.

Good for you. You weren't supposed to work Mondays, so you didn't. Do you want a star?

But they aren't getting extra annual leave. They don't get additional time off.

Yes, well done. No one is arguing they get additional time. It time all at once that's the issue rather than allocated by the government. Do you see?

And it works both ways - the part timer may be enabling a full timer to take leave on the weeks they work extra as often, if not more so, than when their leave requests might happen to clash.

Yes, if we're speculating about the impact on the annual leave of others then this also needs to be taken into account. BH weeks often being particularly popular for annual leave, given that the majority fall in school holidays and they allow for a full week off whilst taking only 4 days of specific annual leave allowance.

Part time worker here. I'm only entitled to be paid for half of the bank holidays, so if I take all the bank holidays off I have to use my normal annual leave to cover the other half of the bank holidays, so I change my days so that I don't eat in to my annual leave entitlement as I'm also a sole parent and have to have as many school holidays off as I can.

Hiw on earth does "if they work Mobdays, they work Mondays" help anyone in this situation ( anyone who isn't acting like a toddler screaming that their brother got the blue cup, that is )?

One big advantage of being a part timer - to both the employee and the company - is that there is more flexibility.

But how is that a problem?

I think l get the unfairness of this to some extent but don't think you would get you very far. I also would construe this as work day jumping for extra wages.

In my experience people will just push the boundaries as far as they can to get what they want

Yes, but most people are shockingly bad at understanding holiday allowances.

I always encouraged PT staff to budge their working days around if they could.

I work compressed hours myself and don't work Mondays, so I benefit from the extra leave from getting most BH added to my allowance. The reverse would apply to this woman, so she's just correcting it.

Your team sounds petty. What she does has no effect positively or negatively on them. If she took leave on a Monday too that doesn't help them in anyway. Sounds like they'd rather make her life worse than better. Are they jealous she can afford to work part time?
Life is not equal, one person is on minimum wage, another on millions in the same company working the same amount of hours.

BUT your colleague did start it with her ridiculous statement that it's unfair full-time people get more pay and holiday.

As a manager of a small team where we can only really afford one person off at a time, I wouldn’t allow this purely for the fact that’s 8 other days of the year where a days annual allowance could be used by a FT employee. I may allow it on one or 2 bank holidays if it was a benefit to the team and the business but I can see where it would get frustrating in a small team of people.

From what I see she doesn't actually get benefit of time off for a bank holiday. I think you are being unreasonable. It's her who should be miffed.

If it were impacting other people's annual leave, then that's a reason to limit it. It doesn't sound like that's the case here, however.

Full timers are not being treated equally as part timers. Management say there’s nothing they can do but they can stop the current policy. No worker should gain a benefit over another worker when it’s in the contract that BH come out of annual leave.

I was the only full timers in a school with 6 other part timers and due to the way that hours etc worked as complicated in schools I ended up having to do double stuff because they were all part time. In the end I had enough when I had to do three break duties a week in the winter when there are 5 days in the week. I got cold and ill. When I added up all my directed hours I was way over!!!

sorted it by saying there are four classes so they needed to sort it out who was doing a break duty that week and then the Head did the 5th day.

this can cause resentment to brew in offices particularly as you say the person was complaining about being paid less than full timers! So long as their wage is the same as someone doing the full timers role and pro rata then they would be paid less. Everyone would love to be paid 5 days and only work 3!

next bank holiday will be Easter Monday and so it’s likely to come up again. The part timer would actually be better off working tue-thu and then claiming TOIL for BH.

Currently the PT are getting 3 extra days in April and May and full timers are not. This issue will grumble on. You might have to get off the fence!

I know people are gonna kick off and swear at me as generally PT can get a rough deal. So anyone that replies that swears and is unkind - I don’t respond or argue with people that should have been swallowed! 😂

Ah... You mean adds up to a week and a half of a part time persons role... So you are objecting to someone taking 3 days or 1.5 days off in any one week incase it interferes with a full time person's leave... Has that ever happened to you?

My other point is that part timers in Prof Roles, rarely get the time in lieu for weekday lates that full timers often take as a matter course by chipping a bit off a Friday. There simply isn't time. Obviously depends on the role (where work is outcome based rather than clock in/clock out), of course, but also often conveniently forgotten in these debates.

I say this as someone who works full time and works to the end on a Friday, but I have never worked so much time 'for free' as when in a part time role.

I thought the problem was the part timers getting the bank holiday hours to take when they want when full timers can’t.
to quote you from 19:01
a small, inconsequential benefit.
A week and a half of holiday isn't a small inconsequential benefit, however you'd like to try and pretend.
It's no skin off anyone else's nose.
Until, perhaps, they use their extra week and a half meaning someone else can't take their leave then.

I work part time- and have the same problem re bank holidays. After they are taken from my allowance and our Christmas shut down is taken off my holidays… I’m left with 6 days holiday to use freely. I’d jump at the chance to work a different day to regain my holidays!

You said "Recently, this person has mentioned how she doesn’t complain about the fact that the rest of us get more holidays and better pay (which is a bit confusing since we work more hours, so naturally, we would), but it’s stirred up some tension in the office, and I guess, some people think she’s rubbing it in their face"

Why did she say that? Did she just randomly say it, or was it in response to people giving her stick over this situation? Sounds like you've all been giving her grief and she finally stuck up for herself and now you're all upset.

Man what a petty lot you all are. "It's not fair" Are you all 12 years old? It's a situation that's mutually beneficial to her, the boss and probably the other staff. Presumably if she didn't work the 3 days, urge people would have to pick up the slack.

If they are working 0.5 and you are ft, then you should be doing double. That's what you are paid for.

If you are doing more than that, then it is unfair, and needs to be balanced. That is veey different to this situation, however.

worry about what you’re doing not others! you will be happier 😊

It depends how the holidays are written in the contract X days plus bank holidays or X days including bank holidays re both legal. In the UK it's a minimum total of 28 days/5.6 weeks full-time equivalent.

Easter is April 26 and then March 27 so 10 bank holidays fall in leave year 26/27 (April to March)

You literally cannot ask anything in here anymore without people being downright nasty. It doesn’t matter how many times you say that you are willing to see it from others’ points of view or state that you’re not upset with the person you’re talking about, there’s always some that will say you’re horrible. I think it’s why men don’t take us seriously, crap like this bickering end pulling other women down for asking an opinion - a really sensible thing to do by the way! And should be applauded as it shows that you want to know if you’re being unreasonable! How can you be fairer than that?!? It seems unfair to me that she gets to use her BH when she wants and you don’t tbh but agree you need to negotiate your BH’s rather than complaining about what they get.

Whois don’t have to use holidays to have bank holiday off though?? You get annual leave PLUS bank holidays…. So if you have it off it is still paid and if you work it you get iI’d extra or get a day off in lieu surely?! We always had 6 weeks PLUS B/H’s…

What is your point? You see to think you've caught me out in some way?

If you work Tues - Thursday then great. If you're contracted to work Mondays that's your choice, and you take the consequences that come with it. Picking and choosing is the problem, when full time staff are not afforded the same benefit - and possibly disadvantaged by the same policy.