Part time workers and bank holidays. Fair or unfair?

[crunchiesnuts]

I know that it’s completely legal and up to the employer, but I’m just curious about what people think about this.

I’m part of a small team (there are 7 of us in total). Everyone works full time, 5 days a week, except for one person who is part time, working 3 days a week. This person works Monday-Wednesday. When there’s a bank holiday, they switch their days and work from Tuesday to Thursday instead. Like I said, I know this is all above board and our manager is fine with it, but the rest of the team feels it’s a bit unfair since they don’t have a say and have to use their annual leave regardless.

I’m kind of torn on it. I know this person asked to work Mondays when she took the job, so it feels a bit like having the best of both worlds, but I also get not wanting to burn through almost all your annual leave just for the bank holidays. Recently, this person has mentioned how she doesn’t complain about the fact that the rest of us get more holidays and better pay (which is a bit confusing since we work more hours, so naturally, we would), but it’s stirred up some tension in the office, and I guess, some people think she’s rubbing it in their face. I’m just interested in hearing what others think. Even though it’s legal, do you see it as fair or unfair?

This is what happens at our place so those working part time at the end of the week get more flexible leave than those working part time at the beginning of the week. Although at our place the person working at the beginning of the week wouldn’t be able to flex to work Tues to Thurs to accumulate extra leave.

@crunchiesnuts as a FT worker you aren’t being affected by this un any way. Just ignore any grumbles about FT’s earning more money .

Sweet lord that is so petty - i don't drink tea or coffee either but would never ever complain about a company providing free tea and coffee

Wow. Absolutely astonished at the pettiness of some people posting on here, and how bitter they must be.

Not a single full time worker is missing out on something they could actually utilise by part timers swapping their days, and even if the rules were changed it would still make no difference at all to the full time workers working pattern. The only person effected would be the part time worker.

I wonder if those grumbling and petty full timers would be quite so vocal to champion for the part timer if the part timer was forced to take all of the bank holidays as leave, when they only get 60% of the bank holiday hours pro rated and would then be worse off in terms of choosable time? I think not somehow.

What I’m amazed by in this thread is that people see bank holidays as ‘holiday’ and I have never thought about it like that. I just see them as extended weekends .

as I said earlier I worked part time and when enquired I asked what happens if a bank holiday fell on a day I worked and do I have to work an extra day they wrote back and told me of course not, It’s a bank holiday. If it fell a day that I worked then lucky me. Now I got quite a few Mondays but never got Good Friday nor did i get always get Xmas day Boxing Day or New Year’s Day. Didn’t give it any thought. Even when I swapped my hours to work Tuesday/wed and Thursdays for an few years and never got any bank holidays it never occurred to me I was getting less holiday since I was off on those days anyway.

@LiquoriceAllsorts2 why shoukd she get special treatment, why shoukd she not have to take her pro rata mondays the same as everyone else, should be same rules. I have friends that had to work bank Hols and owed Holidays, as they were off more than they were pro rated. Not all businesses do what the part timer gets to do.

I get the flexible point can you explain how the part timer gets more hours/days of leave by changing their working day?

If employees have an annual leave amount, say 25 days for full time, pro rata for part time that gets everyone 5 full weeks off per year. (Or whatever amount)

On top of that full time employees get 8 public holiday days per year which they don’t need to use leave allowance for.

If you also pro rata public holiday the employee on a 0.6 FTE contracts gets 4.8 days public holiday allowance. If they have Monday as a usual working day they would need to use more than 4.8 days on public holiday Mondays, eating into their other weeks off. By swapping work days instead they avoid having to use their non public holiday leave on those Mondays. Seems ok to me.

Overall no one gets more paid time off than anyone else. The 0.6 employee gets a tiny bit more flexibility in how to use their public holiday leave but without flexibility could be left without their full 5 weeks holiday off on top of the public holiday days.

So because they switch their days they don't have to use AL? Is that what the issue is?
I'm part time but in our company we get bank holidays off, you don't use your AL for it it's just extra days off (28.5 days + bank holidays) I work part time Tues Thurs Fri so am already off on Mondays. But on the occasion that a bank holiday falls on a Friday, I just get it off without using my AL allowance. If I had to use my allowance for it I'd 100% be switching my days to Tuesday Wednesday Thursday that week. And so would everyone else at your job that is moaning about it.

So weird …part time means you can flexibly work your hours but you are paid less. D’uh ?

Full time means you must ‘suffer’ the sheer horror of unwanted bank holidays …

The solution is vote Reform workers rights will be rolled right back: no annual leave or weekends, no flexible working, no workin* from home, no sick leave, no maternity leave …we really mustn’t have anything vaguely comfortable for workers and “We Begin With Part Timers” can be our rallying cry!

She isn't gaining anything. You are given those 8 days for bank holidays, without bank holidays you wouldn't be given them to use so you are losing nothing by taking the day.
The part time worker is swapping her day to work so therefore not getting a day off. She will only get a portion of the bank holidays in her allowance - not all of them as she doesn't work full time. So she would have to use more of her own AL (not BH allowance) if she had to take them all off!

What a thing to be jealous about! You know the answer- drop your own hours to part time (and stop bitching)

If the ft-ers want this "advantage" of flexibility then they can also go pt and put up with 30% less income and zero career progression

Part time workers don't have to 'put up' with anything. They choose to work less, they get paid less, it's not rocket science and they don't need to be compensated for their adult choices.

a small, inconsequential benefit.

A week and a half of holiday isn't a small inconsequential benefit, however you'd like to try and pretend.

It's no skin off anyone else's nose.

Until, perhaps, they use their extra week and a half meaning someone else can't take their leave then.

Would you have an issue with someone whose working days are Tues, Weds, Thurs and aren’t contracted to work Mondays at all? Or should all part timers be made to work on a Monday so as not to upset the full timers? Oh no, they’re going to benefit from Good Friday too. Maybe part timers should have to work Mondays, Good Friday and if Christmas, Boxing Day and New Year’s Day are on days that they don’t usually work HR should switch them annually so they don’t get those days either.

Full timers can't change their working days so its a non issue. If they get 28 days then 8 are used for bank holidays and 4 weeks to taje when they choose (with agreement). The part timer will get pro rata - 16.8 days, she just happens to be likely to be able to choose when she takes all her days - that's the luxury of part time working.
Full timers need to grow up and stop trying to cause difficulties for their colleague - it's not nice or helpful to productive team working.

So on the week's you work 80% of your hours and get paid 100% of your salary, she is working 100% of her hours and getting 100% of her pay.

But you think she's somehow pulling a fast one.

I work part time.
I get bank holiday allowance pro rata.
In my job we don't work bank holidays.
So I have to use my holiday allowance to pay for the bank holidays otherwise I don't get paid for my bank holidays.

What she’s doing is fine, too much time on your team’s hands to give this any thought, plus a very petty group of people.

Are your colleagues a bit thick, OP?

They are 'not getting an extra week and a half holiday'. At most, they are maybe shifting 5 Mondays with the mutual agreement of their line manager.

And it works both ways - the part timer may be enabling a full timer to take leave on the weeks they work extra as often, if not more so, than when their leave requests might happen to clash.

Out of interest, how often do you rejoice it is a Friday in work? Maybe have a slightly more joyous or relaxed coffee break or conversation? Maybe head out the door on the dot or possibly even a little early because you worked late another night? Part timers who don't work Fridays never get this - FT's more often than not do and they get paid for it.

She's actually losing out as she is entitled to 3/5 of the bank holidays. Instead she's using annual leave for all the Mondays. I work part time but not on a Monday so I get hours added to my annual leave to take account of this.

Yes part-time working can give more flexibility..But she is paid less..Swings and roundabouts.

As a part time worker (tue-thur) so don’t benefit from BH’s:

I think you’re all being a bit petty. You’re all still getting your entitled holiday - she isn’t getting any “extra” days to you. It’s just that she obviously is able to choose to use her BH days on another day she chooses which is why you feel it’s unfair as a full time worker.

As someone who was full time for years and years, I just wouldn’t of been bothered by this.

It’s your companies policy and up to them what they do - remember you are you and not your colleague. Don’t compare or be annoyed at them, if you have any issues or think somethings unfair then talk to them about it

They are 'not getting an extra week and a half holiday'. At most, they are maybe shifting 5 Mondays

Yes, which adds up to a week and a half annual leave, as I said.

they work extra

They're not working extra, remember: they're working their hours. This thread has been very clear to labour that point.

Out of interest, how often do you rejoice it is a Friday in work? Maybe have a slightly more joyous or relaxed coffee break or conversation? Maybe head out the door on the dot or possibly even a little early because you worked late another night? Part timers who don't work Fridays never get this - FT's more often than not do and they get paid for it.

What? If they leave early because they worked late another night they're perfectly entitled to. And they can also leave on the dot, that's nothing at all part timers can't do. You think these things only happen on Fridays?

I'm p/t but I don't work Mondays since I realised I had to pay holiday hours to have bank holidays off. I think your colleague is being a bit cheeky, I was told I couldn't switch working days on bank holiday weeks as it messed up the holiday calculations

Would you have an issue with someone whose working days are Tues, Weds, Thurs and aren’t contracted to work Mondays at all?

Nope.

Or should all part timers be made to work on a Monday so as not to upset the full timers?

If they work Mondays, they work Mondays. I doubt very much they were pressganged into it.

Oh no, they’re going to benefit from Good Friday too

How will they 'benefit' from Good Friday? What are you talking about? 😂

Maybe part timers should have to work Mondays, Good Friday and if Christmas, Boxing Day and New Year’s Day are on days that they don’t usually work HR should switch them annually so they don’t get those days either.

Now you've lost it. No one has suggested swapping anything - work the days you're supposed to work and all will be well.

If they work Tues to Thurs they still get the bank holiday hours to take which might be when the full timer wants time off. I did three years working Weds to Fri and accrued no end of ‘extra’ leave.