Measles, vaccines & friendships

[Measley]

Following on from the news of the London measles outbreak.

I put my foot in it. Shared it with an anti-vaxxer friend. Genuinely was worried and I know she doesn't read the news so didn't think she would know.

I tried to explain that I was just worried and care about her son. She took that as me saying she doesn't care about him which isn't the case at all. I know she cares and I know she thinks she's protecting him by not vaccinating.

I have listened to her views and researched each point carefully and can see they are all very easily debunked by science and stats.

I didn't expect us to not be able to discuss it like that.

I'm sensitive and easily triggered due to losses.

I feel so sad about what's come between us and am happy just to let it go but I don't know if she will be. Any advice?

I tried gently with an anti vax fellow parent at primary school in case she was open to discussion, because I cared about her child, and any children that child might have if she got rubella in pregnancy.

She told me it was fine her daughter not being vaccinated because she’d spoken to a homeopath who’d told her that it would give her immune system a tremendous boost if she caught any of the infections.

You can’t debate with some of them because what they consider knowledge and the basis of who is knowledgeable is so different. I’ve seen so many children in low income countries damaged by lack of vaccination, it just seems such a Western privileged position in some cases.

Yes I noticed the whole of South America have mandatory vaccinations - although I’m sure no one trots out this ridiculous navel gazing ideas

I couldn't be friends with anyone so arrogant, ignorant and selfish anyway. She's no great loss. Best not to get too attached to her kids anyway as she's deliberately putting them at risk of death.

I wouldn't have anti vaxxer friends tbh

Nor would I

they need to exiled! And their kids kept indoors!

I think you did the right thing. Imagine if you read the article, said nothing and her child died from measles. At least your conscience is clear that you’re informing her and if she chooses to take your kind message as an insult or insinuation that she doesn’t care about her child then that’s her problem. You know that you had the best of intentions in reaching out. Hopefully she can see that once she had thought more carefully about it. If you choose to not vaccinate your child, then you are going to face people questioning your choice or passing on info. She needs to learn to say thanks, but no thanks. She probably feels judged as she is judged. Any mother that ignores medical advice and believes they know better is going to grow some thick skin. Madness in my opinion and i’d really struggle to be friends with an anti vaxer.

I worked for a family of anti - vaxxers directly after covid

Yes I was straight in the door for my covid jab - one of the first to be invited , as my mums carer

It didnt cost me a thought, I was in line as soon as I could

I was fit and healthy, mum wasnt, my neighbour across the road wasnt, nor the next door neighbour. They and our families were shielding , protecting our loved ones , so all the families went ahead and got the jabs so that our loved ones could have a chance of living a normal life

So many people cant be vaccinated, that surely those of us who can be , owe it to everyone else to step and and be vaccinated. ?

But I couldn't have a sensible discussion with the family who were so opposed to vaccinations. AFATWC , the vacs are more dangerous then the actual disease

They have never seen measles and what it can do first hand . My cousin got it aged 18 months and then spent his life in a cot at Queen Marys Carshalton , deaf, dumb and blind, no mobility because my aunt was feared of the vaccines Luckily he died aged 16

Same. I'm happy to live and let live for most things, but not vaccinations. It is the height of idiocy imo.

I read this article the other day - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/ and would urge anyone that cba to sign up for the newsletter to read it too.

I really wouldn’t bother trying to make this right. Mostly because I have a feeling the only way you’re going to come close to that is by agreeing with her about her antivax way of thinking. Fuck that. I’m all for minding my own business when it comes to other people’s parental choices (eg a friend of mine got her 1 year olds ears pierced; it’s something I’d never do, I think it’s horrible but it’s not my business) but not vaccinating your children is everyone’s business imo because it has far reaching consequences.

If she’s really defensive about her decision not to vaccinate her child that suggests that she’s having doubts about it.
Someone who was completely comfortable with what they’d done probably wouldn’t find it so difficult to listen to your point of view. They would just rebut your arguments and ultimately agree to differ on the subject.
If I am right - and your friend is having doubts about not vaccinating - then you did the right thing talking to her. She’s not admitting it, but sense is beginning to get through to her.

I really hope so @Elisirdamour - I know she isn't genuinely afraid of the vaccine.

She had the Covid jab because she wanted to go on holiday and needed it to do so. She's had vaccines historically. I suspect it's driven by her partner but it perplexes me that she won't admit that and seemingly genuinely also believes the YouTube American crap.

In honesty, I would read it as a little disingenuous that you sent it to her and claimed to worry about her son.

Because it is an odd thing to say, it does imply that you worry about him in comparison to her. Especially given that she will know the same headlines as you, so you weren't telling her for information purposes. You were either trying to change her mind or to prove her wrong.

I agree with your overall stance, but I'm not sure what you hoped to achieve here. Either you can accept her viewpoint and still be friends, or you can't.

I don't understand this sorry.

Firstly as I said in the OP she doesn't watch/read the news as she says it's depressing. Therefore, I wasn't sure she would know about it.

Secondly, one of her arguments is that the vaccine risk is greater than the risk of the illnesses. When we have excellent herd immunity I can see that there's an element that her son is protected via everyone else. However, in an outbreak that's no longer the case. If I was a vaccine hesitant I would want to know if there was an outbreak of cases so I could track them and consider taking kids off school/nursery etc.

Not measles, but my uncle died as a baby of polio in the pre vax days. It destroyed my Nan and she carried his little picture in her purse until she died. Anti vaxxers with all their pseudo science and TikTok ‘research’ are dangerous idiots, she deserves no more of your time

I'm so sorry to hear that @Itxitxitcgx.

I know someone with one very small leg as a result of polio also. These diseases are nasty and there's a reason they worked hard to invent & test vaccines for them.

If enough people have both doses of the vaccine, it's possible to make the country measles free. The vaccine doesn't work for everyone, having 2 vaccines gives 99% of people immunity and IF EVERYONE ELSE that was eligible had had the vaccine, you'd have stayed measles free!

This is what pisses me off about anti vaxxers, they put others at risk.

And you are quoting me because???

Btw I think the jab was only about 90% protective when I was a kid. So no guarantee I got it off someone unvaccinated. My unvaccinated brother ironically didn't catch it from me

You can’t reason with people like that. Don’t waste your time or energy. She’s chosen to roll the dice and there nothing you can do.

Her argument that the vaccine risk is greater than the risk of the virus is bullshit. There's no other word for it. Measles is one of the most contagious diseases out there and the risk of complications from it is up to 20% IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES! Its even higher in less developed countries.

Nobody ever said that vaccines were risk free, that's exactly why they're given in the health visitors office and you have to stay around. The risk from the MMR vaccine is 0.2%. The risks from measles are 100 x that of the vaccine.

Your friend is stupid and careless - let her be.

I have very little respect for anti vaxxers but I don't think there is any point arguing with them. You can't reason with stupid.

I do what I think is best for my family and leave them to do whats best for theirs.

As someone who can’t take up the Measels’ vaccine despite repeated vaccinations your fried is an awful human being and uncaring about the vulnerable people in the community who can’t get protection. If you care about the friendship just say you apologise for offending her but you sent it out of care. If you don’t then don’t send anything and just ignore and eventually block her.

Yes it’s the height of selfishness and concerns us all

I'm so sorry about what happened in your family, how very dreadful.

I studies an MSc in 2022 and the majority of other students were from overseas. They couldn't understand the attitude to vaccines, where they come from they see the long term affects of contracting measles or polio. Having the opportunity to refuse a vaccine is the epitome of 1st world privilege.

I've got two children with autism, we embrace every vaccine that we can take - we call it the "autism upgrade"

"I've had this years flu vaccine, I'm a little bit more autistic now ...."

Thankyou

Im a 60's child so have seen the horrors of Polio and TB - my own mother contracted TB and spent 2 years in a sanatorium , and polio survivors were seen everywhere - braced legs and stacked shoes, rare to see now . I remember being petrified of seeing an Iron long

Generations after mine haven't seen these things so really dont understand why we need herd immunity - to protect those that can not be vaccinated

You would have thought Covid would make people understand more, but it seems people are too ready to believe conspiracy theorists on SM rather then medical evidence

Im glad to hear there is now a chicken pox vaccine and I hope that's taken up. We used to have chicken pox parties so the whole neighbour hood caught it the same time , and for most it is a minor illness, I unfortunatley took it really bad and I remember just lying on the sofa , weak as a kitten with a scarf around my eyes blocking the light and to top it all off , I was allergic to Kalamine which just doubled the itching lol. I have more then my fair share of chicken pox scars

100% this.