AIBU to limit contact with a friend’s child who keeps hitting my DD?

[10thlittlemonkey]

We’re friendly with a couple of mums from antenatal classes. our kids are all around 3.5 now. One of the boys is speech delayed and nursery have suggested he may benefit from delaying starting school in September as he’s summer born and likely has some additional needs.
My issue is that on the last few occasions we’ve met up, he has randomly hit or pushed my DD without any warning. For example, last week I asked DD to say goodbye and ask if he’d like a hug. He smacked her in the face. His mum told him to say sorry and he then slapped her again. DD didn’t cry but just looked really shocked. Similar things happen most times we see them.
I do appreciate he may struggle with communication and that could be a factor. I also think it might be exacerbated because his parents sometimes say things like “look how nicely DD is sitting/behaving,” which I imagine could make him feel jealous or singled out.
Their parenting style is very different to ours and I wouldn’t feel comfortable telling them how to handle it. I try to interact positively with him and give praise too to rebuff some of the parents comments

I’ve found myself excusing his behaviour to DD (“he struggles with his words,” “he has rough hands,” etc) while also saying it’s not ok and she doesn’t have to play with him.
However, DD has mentioned it a couple of times before we’ve met up, so it clearly plays on her mind. I’m starting to worry about the emotional impact on her if this keeps happening.
AIBU to start limiting contact? Or is this just normal 3-year-old behaviour I should ride out?

I was in a similar situation. Fundamentally my concern and focus was on my daughter, I stopped contact. This isn’t to say I didn’t empathise with my friends situation and she did handle it when her child hurt mine, but it became so frequent I had to stop contact for my daughters safety.

I did tell my friend and I also let my daughter know that she did not deserve to be put in this situation. I used it as a lesson in putting her safety first and that there is never a good enough reason for her to be treated this way.

I have a 3.5 yr old its a no from me

Its probably hard for your friend but your priority needs to be your child.

In circs like this I've tended to either go meet the mum and leave my child at home (with dh) or met in the evening sans kids.
"We can try again when they are older," is the vague party line

Yes this sounds practical. I did forget to mention that they go to a class together once a week which is often where behaviour is exibited which is probably why ive tolorated it for longer than i would have as its something DD enjoys. I think i will start to explore a different activity for her on that day- use as an excuse for her to try something new as well

last week I asked DD to say goodbye and ask if he’d like a hug

You are absolutely not being unreasonable but don’t do that anymore with anyone.

Absolutely right thanks for pointing out. We never insist on hugs- we ask her if she wants to offer a hug first. And thanks for prompting me to rethink this- I think I'll stop asking her with this particular child as it may have become a bit of a 'habit' that she feels obliged as we see them at least once a week. The do play well lots of the time and like to hold each other's hands etc... but then he often just switches without warning which is confusing her

I think you do need to reduce contact especially as your dd has mentioned it. It's clearly on her mind.

I'd consider it past the point of reasonable that a 3 year old is worrying about going somewhere in case she gets hit so activity and meetups would just be fully stopped immediately.

My 3yo can suddenly switch into hitting or biting, usually when overexcited or overtired. We try to stop him, we've done both carrot and stick, every manner of consequence we can think of, nothing seems to work. While I'd be gutted if someone didnt want to see us because of it, I'd also understand why they felt they needed to advocate for their child

What does "say sorry" mean if he just hits again? No kind of "we don't hit" talk from the other parent? How is he expected to understand what "sorry" means?

Just disengage from them for a bit.

I just wrote a really long reply and it disappeared before I hit post. Ugh.

anyway - I am assuming you want to stay friends with the mum, otherwise there’d be no dilemma for you here.

I’d ask for child free meet ups, or cafes or walks (the latter two being environments where I find hitting decreases/disappears mostly as the children are interacting less, YMMV). Most definitely don’t tell her why if you want the friendship to continue. If you really feel the need I’d say something like “oh I’m not in the mood for the chaos of them all playing together at the moment”. She’ll know why, but you’re giving her the chance to save face. Though tbh if your daughter is worrying about it, I’d probably just stick to child free meet ups for now.

It sounds like he’s hitting when anxious - eg your daughter asking him for a hug perhaps made him a bit worried (even if he usually likes hugs) and due to the speech delay he has learnt that hitting is a quicker and easier way to communicate “no”. Not saying remotely that it’s your or your daughter’s fault nor am I excusing the hitting. I’m just pointing it out for your own info in the future as you remark that it’s random, but actually the hugging scenario in particular is one I’ve seen a thousand times

As for your friend saying unhelpful things in the moment, she may well be at the end of her tether with it! Not ideal, but human nature

Finally, you will never be unreasonable to prioritise your daughter’s safety and comfort x

For me it depends how the parent responds because some 3 year olds do hit, and if the parent is responding properly and trying to teach their child, and the parent expresses concern and care for your child and seems to be upset and want better, it's not so bad. I had a friend who's son started behaving that way to my son but she didn't seem bothered and didn't really correct him, so in that situation I did stop seeing them because it wasn't right to expose my son.

I would limit contact for sure. It’s a shame their child is struggling but it’s not for your daughter to navigate. And definitely stop suggesting contact - with this child or any other really. I’ve never had a hug at the end of a playdate expectation and my kids would not enjoy that at all.

I have a good friend who has the same aged kids as I do. We were on maternity together twice (though she had 4 kids in the end). Our oldest are both autistic but he’s more of what you’d think of classical autism with lots of repeating noises and unpredictable movement. My daughter finds noise and unpredictability super challenging so every play date was a bit stressful. We gave up on that and go out for dinner every couple of months instead as the children don’t have to spend time together just because we want to and no one was enjoying it.

This is really tricky, and you'll find it a few times as dd grows up and especially when she is old enough to prefer/dislike people - just because you like parents/mums unfortunately does not mean she will automatically enjoy playing with the child - so this is a good time to practice/try honouring her needs whilst maintaining the friendship (if you want to!). If you like her as a friend and want to preserve that, try to start to organise child-free meet ups (I go with cinema as its a good one to be clearly child free for a reason "ooh dh won't see wuthering heights with me do you fancy it?") You could also look at ways they can be around but also not around each other - e.g. places you might be with her all the time, instead of him, like a baby gym class, i did toddler cooking classes at that age which were lovely and no opportunity to hit as very structured.
I'd totally stop house playdates or un structured play with them, as that's the most likely situation for this behaviour to happen.
I'd 100% stop hugging or close physical contact- it's possible this boy reacted as he felt overwhelmed or physically under threat in some way and reacted the only way he knows how. Tbh stop hugs entirely, its a bit odd, I would go with a classic "say thank you to xyzs parent for having us" and a quick bye for the playmate. Lots of kids hate hugs and she will find it difficult to say if she doesnt want to hug someone if you say "offer it". His behaviour may change, it may not, it's good your dd has expressed what she wants/needs and I think you do need to support that.

It definitely sounds like she could do with a break from him.

I would generally avoid suggesting hugs with anyone.

If he has a speech delay and can’t express himself - put yourself in his shoes.

If it happens when your daughter hugs him, maybe he hasn’t got the ability to say “don’t hug me I don’t like it”. If she hugs him or he thinks she’s going too, the way to get her out of his face is pushing her back.

Clearly not defending his behaviour but he’s 3.5 so his thinking won’t be that deep beyond “get her out of my face!”

Perhaps stop suggesting she hugs him - or people in general. It’s like training her to get up in peoples personal spaces. As she gets older that can be confusing for her too.

If he still whacks her I would avoid engaging for her safety.

My son hates people hugging him. My friend always suggests to her daughter to hug him good bye, he literally says “no thank you!”. She kept saying it. He eventually would run away so she doesn’t bother anymore.

My friends DD went through a phase of hitting my DS, there was even a bite. I carried on seeing her, she's grown out of it now and our DC have a lovely bond so I'm glad we did carry on as normal. My DS was never phased by it, other than the one bite but that was quickly forgotten about. If he was getting really upset, maybe I would have handled it differently. There are always going to be children who hit at this age. There will be children during the school years who hit and say nasty things too. Building some resilience to it might actually do them some good.

If the behaviour tends to happen at the group, it could be that he gets overwhelmed, and it may be possible that in a different setting it's easier to manage.

Your daughter does need to feel safe, and she's very little to be dealing with this. It may be worth talking to the other mum about it. I think there can be a lot of shame if your child regularly hurts other children, and being open about it (if that's a conversation you can navigate) may be helpful for her. If her child has additional needs she's likely to have a long road ahead of dealing with this kind of thing. Having a friend who can differentiate between a behaviour/phase that's difficult and a difficult child can really help. My children never did this but I had a really good friend whose son bit other children for a really long time despite her best efforts. I remember how hard it was for her, and also trying to negotiate my children feeling safe and her son feeling included.

I think you should put your DD's safety and wellbeing first.

So talk to the boy's mum and say that your DD is upset and you want to take a break from the kids playing together untill the boy comes out the other side of this hitting phase. You can say that you'd still love to meet up without the kids if you want to.

You don't have to stop attending the shared activity. That's a rubbish message to pass on to your DD, that she has to withdraw from activities to keep herself safe, when she's not doing anything wrong. Instead stay with your DD, keep your own body between the boy and her and feel free to be the village and parent him appropriately if he becomes violent. Let your DD see her mum advocate and protect her so that she grows up to know it's ok to do the same herself.

Well, if you wouldn't expect to be smacked around the face when socialising, I'm not sure why you'd even consider it appropriate to keep asking your daughter to socialise with a child with a track record of violence.

I've retreated a friend whose kid does this. I don't really care what she thinks when it comes to this - I prioritise my daughter. You should, too.

I've had three toddlers now and I get a bit tired of people saying this is developmentally normal. I don't personally think it is - a bit of pushing and shoving over toys, yes. A full on slap in the face - no. Based on my own children and many years of playgroups etc. Even if this child has additional needs - the impact on your daughter remains the same. How does your friend deal with him when he does this?

Advanced 3 year old to be able to articulate feelings etc in such an articulate manner so I would absolutely listen. She doesn’t need to tolerate this but I lost count of the number of incidents at pre-school. Will she be at school with this child when they start? I would consider meeting ups where they are both engaged in intense activities of coffee child free time. See if he grows out of it so they can have a positive friendship if they both want.

I agree with others that you need to limit interactions between your daughter and this child.
i am a mother to a neuro divergent 2.5 yo boy. He is speech delayed, has GDD and is awaiting autism assessment. He is also frequently unpredictable with hitting. It’s very difficult to manage (although it sounds like I handle it/parent differently than your friend!). So try to be gentle/compassionate in your communication with your friend - she is very likely embarrassed and feeling totally overwhelmed with her son’s behaviour. But you absolutely have to put your daughter first. Also as another member said, I would probably stop promoting her to hug other children goodbye. Even if your daughter is happy with it, lots of other kids won’t be, but won’t have the confidence/ability to say “no”. That would absolutely be a trigger for my son to hit as well. Absolutely not saying it’s your fault, it certainly isn’t, just something to think about :)

I find this challenging, normal behaviour of hugging goodbye is a trigger for a child like yours, but there is a semi passive - aggressive response about your child. As you state your child doesn’t have the confidence to say “no” but the OP child doesn’t have equal rights?

If standard social behaviour is difficult for your child as stated and is triggering as you define how are children safe at school/pre school/ nursery with them? Worrying considering your stance

Woah, I'm an adult and I don't consider hugging as a normal way to say bye.
I only hug people I love, rather than like. And they all ask and sometimes I say no. It's not that I don't like them, I just don't want to hug them. There are other ways for me to demonstrate liking my friends.
Just like some people do the kiss kiss hello/goodbye and consider it normal, what's normal for one group isn't for everyone.
This poster is not being pass-agg, they are explaining. And what does "equal rights" refer to?? Seems to be the hugging from your sentence construction. I don't know where in the charter hugging rights are listed...

Anyway, to the OP. I had similar issues with a classmate of my DD when they were 4. He was v OTT with physicality, and wouldn't take no for an answer. She literally would shout at him to stop hugging "Stop it I don't like it" and she isn't a quiet child. It came to a head one day while the class was lining up for library, two by two. He was next to her and hugged her so hard she said it hurt. She shouted stop it really loudly but he didn't, so she pushed him away. The teacher had gone inside the door to ask something so didn't see it. My DD got into trouble, as she "should have used her words" and we got a phonecall. My DH said it's her Metoo moment, and told the school they were out of line for allowing it to continue for so long. She always spoke up about it and they just kept telling her to use her words and move away. Not lessons in handling make physicality that any female should be taught (basically what did you do rather than teaching the boy he should stop). Yes they were 4 but lessons like that need to be taught and reinforced with consequences. He certainly got one that day.
I tailed off contact with his parents, made sure she was secure in group catch ups and unfortunately we were busy when his birthday party rolled around.
Good luck OP and I would put your DD first and teach her to be assertive when someone hurts her.

This.