Grammar vs independent

[ssj123]

We are navigating the 11plus journey with our daughter. We have offers from Wimbledon High, Putney High (w scholarship), Surbiton High (w scholarship), LEH (w scholarship) and Guildford High (w scholarship) and we are awaiting results from St Paul's Girls tomorrow. We have already turned down her Kingston Grammar 10plus spot. We are waiting for Tiffin Girls outcome in March but we will have only half a day once we know about Tiffins to decide on other options so we are trying to rule out choices as we go - we are not keen on SPGS, Putney High and LEH seem less appealing now than when we started, Surbiton High was a backup, Guildford High seems best at the moment. But also, we need to have a firm view on the tough choice of independent vs. Grammar. Can someone who had similar options on independent front but went grammar please walk me through their rationale and whether they were happy with the choice in the end? Are we being unreasonable considering grammar in the face of all these options? Thanks!

I agree with this response.

I have first hand experience of SPGS and, honestly, I do not know one girl that has not been tutored there. Make of that what you will.

Private fees will go up by at least 50% from y7 to y13, maybe more. Can you stick it out when that happens?

op do you have any thoughts on what your daughter’s social life will look like?

Commuting a long way to school could mean being living a long way from peers. Who will she socialise with on weekends/holidays?

Worth thinking about with teenage years approaching alongside all the other considerations

There are many girls at SPGS that commute from very far away and mostly they integrate well socially. However, it must be exhausting for those girls and, in my opinion, it’s one example of the intensity of much of the parent body. The school itself does not pressurise the girls at all, IME all the pressure comes from parents.

yes this is part of the maths as we weigh up between the offers. It does add up to a lot when looking at places like SPGS

Yes going to offerholders event at GHS opened up my eyes to how far the girls come from - Liphook, Farnham, would be a nightmare to meet with friends over weekends unless they travel more central...

We would have to drive her to SPGS school bus stop route for a pickup around 7.30am, or she would have to do a roundabout journey by public transport...this is a not a straightforward setup for two working parents...it would limit her ability to be active on campus in clubs too. Feels like a tiring routine indeed

I’d go Tiffin based on everything you’ve said, assuming it comes through.

You’re comfortable with the tiger culture, the journey is doable, private will be a stretch financially. Seems a no brainer?

I wouldn’t consider GHS due to most girls living in Guildford or surrounding towns - as you say, nightmare to meet friends at weekends. Also nightmare if there is a train issue. Also forget SPGS with horrible daily travel and cost.

Op what is the commute like to Tiffin’s?

if you think your child will thrive there - I’d be swayed to that option.

out of interest why did you turn down KGS?

I loved reading all your comments, it's absolutely brilliant that your daughter did all these exams and I can relate to how exams are fun. 😂

My daughter did the same, she did Wallington, Tiffins, Henrietta Grammar Schools. And then she did 5-6 independent school exams also and got an offer at Godolphin and Latymer School and waiting list at LEH. She didn't make into St Paul's Girls or Westminster interview rounds but she really enjoyed the whole process of going to these schools.

As a fellow immigrant, I was looking at how many kids these schools send to Oxbridge and numbers aren't that impressive other than St. Paul's Girls and Westminster School. Having said that independent schools probably give you that strange confidence in yourself that state schools unfortunately aren't able to offer. Anyway, your kid is brilliant so she will thrive anywhere.

Waiting for the final email from state schools so we can put a nail in the coffin of 11+ 😂

You need to wait until you get a Tiffin offer. But it's an excellent academic school so would seem most sensible choice, unless you have thousands floating around

And most of the sports/music clubs start before school at 7.30am which she’d need to go to if she wants to get involved.

have the grammar school results come ?

London/Surrey is after 5pm

thank you so much

Commute is very comfortable to Tiffins from where we are, she could even cycle through Richmond Park for 20mins to get there...we could even aim to drop her most days if one of us is working from home

Rightly said, can't wait to put that nail in the coffin and get my life back :D :D That strange self-confidence point, wonder if it is possible to replicate that in grammar settings supplemented with experiences outside school...

Yes it feels like a sub-optimal setup for us even if it is a fab school

We had grammar offers (in a different area) and went independent, many reasons for that

• The vast majority of prep school children go on to independent secondaries and there's a reason for it (cultural and social fit leading to better academic results)
• Two children from the prep took grammar places and one is struggling and looking to get back into the independent system
• most grammars in my area only have an A team in sports and am pretty sure DS wouldn't get picked although he would love to play
• Grammar wouldn't offer at least two choices of subjects DS was good at and would have considered for GCSE
• Better diversity

I would say it would depend on your DD's personality, not every student will thrive at an independent AND a grammar as they are culturally so different! I would think about where she will be at her best.

Sorry I did not address your point on KGS - she had an offer through the 10+ process so the timelines were a bit different, we had to let them know by Feb 12th to get our deposit back. It's technically the closest independent to us but it felt like a school a slightly more sporty kid would thrive in more. Also, I have strong reservations about their device policy - while all other schools have a no-smart phones policy / strict policy on locking up phones in Yonder pouches, KGS seems to tolerate kids with phones in pockets, texting under the desks etc - I have a hardline stance on mobile devices (Happy to be called Tiger Mum on this point, guilty as charged!)

Ignore grammar or independent... Ask yourself which school would suit your child best and which one your child will be happy in

• My theory for why vast majority of prep school children go on to independent - parents in the private sector have major class anxiety about being mixed in with people of other socioeconomic backgrounds. With grammar schools, the kids have self-selected for work ethic and academic calibre so I am not bothered by this
• It is easier to go from grammar to independent vs. the other way around where we are....
• Grammar is definitely not the best option for kids who have a sporty bent, my daughter doesn't which makes us wonder about the value add of most privates except the very top end academically
• This is a fair point and we have looked up the subject choices, almost all the options we are considering including grammar offer the subjects she might go for, thankfully
• Fair point - the grammars local to us are heavy with representation from immigrant communities (South Asian, East Asian, Eastern European) and we wondered about that. And then we went to SPGS offerholder events and saw the wealthier version of pretty much the same demographic :D This is just the reality of v academic schools, we have realised...

Cultural fit is a tough one because it is not easy to measure but agree that this is an important consideration!

My theory for why vast majority of prep school children go on to independent - parents in the private sector have major class anxiety about being mixed in with people of other socioeconomic backgrounds. With grammar schools, the kids have self-selected for work ethic and academic calibre so I am not bothered by this

This may be a factor, but that's not the whole picture and was definitely not a factor for me (immigrant as well with no UK ties). It's a cultural fit - to give you one small example from a scenario I know of, the Y7 grammar school fines/penalises a student for not ticking off a checklist showing homework was done (even if homework was done); a Y7 independent school typically sets a list of homework/tasks for the week and encourages them on a 1-1 basis to complete it through the week. More 1-1 interaction and problem solving rather than a 'mass system' if that makes sense. When we got our place at the grammar school, they sent an email saying 'your child has been allocated to this class, this group, this language and this musical group'. When we got our place at the independent school, we were sent details of their clubs, languages and activities and asked to 'think and choose'. There's a lot more autonomy and looking at he personality of the child in the latter situation, which I frankly liked. But it may or may not be important to you.

My theory for why vast majority of prep school children go on to independent - parents in the private sector have major class anxiety about being mixed in with people of other socioeconomic backgrounds. With grammar schools, the kids have self-selected for work ethic and academic calibre so I am not bothered by this

Remember most areas of the country do not have grammars so if you want selective schooling, private is the only option. I’d say this is the biggest reason.

As to why private prep parents choose private senior when there is a grammar option - I don’t think it’s class anxiety, more that private senior gets you smaller classes, more facilities, more sports and other clubs, and a more rounded approach generally. Many grammars have a real hothouse reputation. Some private schools too of course!

Tiffin Girls has a vast amount of clubs and sports. Yes, the vast fees people pay for private schools do tend to mean better facillities, but it doesn't mean that state schools don't have great sports opportunities and teaching.

I know you said it's not an issue for you anyway, OP, but the idea that grammars aren't a good fit for sporty girls is - at least with TGS - simply not true. There are multiple high level girls in different sports - looking at last week's school newsletter alone, the school hosted borough netball tournaments for all age groups (from 1st teams to 3rd teams are mentioned in each), the u12 hockey team played in a London tournament, four girls went to cross country nationals in Durham and the school launched their summer extra curricular sports programme for students.