To be really concerned about a six year old threatening to kill other kids and their parents?

[Octonaut4Life]

I need to hear from other parents/teachers about this I think. A few weeks ago my son, who is newly turned six, seemed to be getting more resistant to going to school. Eventually it turned out that a child in his class, who he plays with a lot, had been saying things like "I'll kill you" a lot to him - for example, if my child didn't want to play a certain game etc. We reported it to the school and were told the headteacher had dealt with it. My son seemed to brighten up again after a while, and it seemed this child was being much nicer to him. However from what my son says, the child frequently behaves really poorly and has physically assaulted other children.

Today my son came home and didn't seem himself. Apparently this child today said twice that he would kill my son and his mum and dad. My son says he told a lunchtime supervisor about this at the time, but the other kid denied it and the supervisor believed him. He didn't tell his class teacher who would have known about the history, and presumably the supervisor didn't tell her either.

I don't want to overreact but to me this feels like really abnormal and shocking behaviour for a six year old? The first time, I suppose I thought well - kids repeat things they've heard and perhaps don't understand the weight of it. But for him to be saying it again so soon and escalating it to now being a threat to the whole family, plus the other behaviour, feels very worrying and my son is unsurprisingly very upset. I guess I want to check what others feel is a proportionate reaction in this instance?

We've written to the school and spoken to DS and said it's probably best if he doesn't play with this child any more if he is so unkind. The child is supposed to be going to DS's birthday party in a week - do we uninvite him? What's reasonable to expect from the school in this instance? Is this kind of behaviour more normal among kids this age than I think? I really need external opinions. Thank you.

Anyone?

“and the supervisor believed him.” this bit sounds odd. The supervisor is saying your son made it up? I’d have expected them to be neutral and report it to a teacher. I’d call the school to follow up on your written message. I’d say telling a six year old they’re no longer allowed at a party is awful and you’d regret that.

There are some children who say things to get a reaction. I have know children with ADHD say things like this (and not mean it, they just enjoy the reaction as part of their impulsive nature) and I’ve heard kids say this when there is trauma of some kind. So yes this does happen more than many parents realise and the child saying it is vulnerable in some way.

However, what is important is how your DS feels. If he is unsettled by what the boy is saying and you’ve said to him to keep his distance at school, then having him at his party sends a confusing message. If you are able to, you could try and explain to the boy’s mum about what happened and see if she understands that her DS can’t attend your sons birthday party.

I think telling your DS not to play with him is fair and also I would tell him to tell his actual teacher and not a lunchtime supervisor next time.
The party invitation is done. Maybe it is a good opportunity to observe.

Has the school told his parents.

I think rescinding a party invite could really backfire, I wouldn’t (is it a full class thing, his mum will be there?) but would take it as an opportunity to watch them and see how they play.

Absolutely raise it with their teacher though.

I’d be reassuring him that he can’t kill you as you are three times his size and be telling my child to say it back.

I don't find it that shocking, with the amount of stuff young children are exposed to these days. There are a few little shits boys in DD6s class who run around shouting they're going to 'kill the girls' in the class, pretend shooting guns and the like. I've told DD to just ignore them and play with her own friends. I've seen the parents of these boys and I doubt any feedback handed down by the school would go down too well to be honest.

Sounds like he’s learnt a new phrase off something and is now going round saying it to everyone. It’s unkind and the school definitely need to sort it out but I don’t think it’s as shocking as you’re making out - he’s a 6 year old boy saying silly things to get a reaction. I’d say him physically harming other children is more the issue here however again, as much as we have expectations of what’s right and wrong for children, some children that age still haven’t mastered impulse control especially in year 1. Doesn’t make it right though and it’s awful when your DS is on the receiving end.

You’re right to keep informing the school, there could be a safeguarding issue at home.

I’d be tempted to let the child come to the party, to see what his parents are like.

Keep talking to school. We've had similar. It's a safeguarding and bullying issue. It's not ok and it's not normal.

surprised that people are saying this boy should come to the party!

Fuck that if they were threatening and upsetting my son repeatedly.

I wouldnt uninvite the boy directly to his face but would tactfully say to the mum they havent been getting on recently so probably best to skip this one. Apologies for the late notice - I hoped this would blow over but unfortunately it hasnt. Thanks for your understanding. Its up to the mum then how they handle that with the son and can say a white lie, or be straight and say its down to your actions!

I do agree it needs 'handling', if only from the pov that the child might have some vulnerabilities. Additionally, there's rarely anything wrong with helping kids to find responses to intimidation by other kids.

Reaching back into far-distant memories of my own primary school days, the most obvious response to "I'm gonna get you" was "Not if I get you first". It's obviously not great to counter-threaten murder, but "get you" covers everything quite adequately.

Kid's not yet an experienced bully, or he'd be threatening to have his own parents dispose of you and DH 🙄 "Don't be silly, my mum's a lot bigger than you" should suffice for now!

FWIW, I'm a big fan of coaching children to gang up on persistent bullies. This doesn't require any actual violence - the kids who've been threatened just need to encircle the bully and tell him/her to pack it in or they'll "be sorry". Bullying relies on intimidation of individuals, so a show of communal resistance usually works.

A child as young as this threatening to kill and harm needs monitoring. I think it's a big red flag. I know of a child who behaved like this when young who actually ended up stabbing someone as a teenager. Perhaps this wouldn't have happened if the violent and aggressive behaviour was addressed when she was younger.

Uninviting him would probably cause more problems than it solves. Just let him come to the party...realistically he's 6 so he's not going to attack or kill anyone there. Then never invite him from thereon and spread the word to other mums as well.

It may also help to gather info on the sort of life he has. Some kids are just boisterous and say stuff like that as part of pretend play (eg they're going through a pirate phase) but others have genuine red flags in the back. If he has an dodgy family, overwhelmed mum, possible unsupported ND issues or financial issues then it makes sense to gradually cut down all contact.

You also can't rule out he's learning all this from home. Some violent fathers will say that to their children or he's witnessing DV where the parents regularly say that to each other. It's still none of your responsibility though so your only priority is to ensure your son is no longer friends with him.

It's awful that some children can behave like this.
Similar hapenned to my daughter in reception, she would wake up uncontrollably crying as a horrible girl had told her that her mummy was going to die in her sleep, or that her mummy was going to kill me, or her dad was going to burn her house down.
School were responsive and moved this girl into another class, bit she still somehow found a way to put threatening notes into my daughters tray and bag for the rest of reception. I understand from a neighbour of theirs that there is constant shouting between parents and Dad is quite aggressive, so I'm guessing this is a trauma response, but it's still really horrible for the other child.

I definitely wouldn’t uninvite him, I’d use it as an opportunity to observe him and how he interacts etc. Re the school, yes I’m sure they should be doing more.

Report everything to the school every time, in writing.

Tell the school the incidents are now affecting your child's willingness to attend school and you need them to tell you what steps they are taking to PREVENT the behaviour.

Ask school to ensure all staff including supervisors are aware of the behaviour and you expect your son to be supported if he reports.

Thanks everyone I really appreciate all the responses. I actually have observed the kids together at a party a couple of weeks ago. I am not a teacher or in any way an expert but my gut feeling was that the child may have ADHD. He couldn't sit still, didn't focus on his tea, flailed his limbs around without the level of awareness of personal boundaries most six year olds would show, was very very excited with some outbursts, etc. He actually seemed ok, there was no real behaviour at the party that seemed especially problematic but I could see how some of it could wind other kids up and lead to situations escalating, he would get very close to their faces etc. He really didn't seem to me like a malicious child, although obviously that's only based on a two hour party. So as one person said, if saying things for a reaction can be a part of ADHD sometimes for kids, that would perhaps make sense, although it doesn't lessen the impact it has on my son.

Will parents be attending the party or will you have some adult friends helping?

It all depends on the tone really. I'll kill you in a joking way really doesn't mean that at all. Do his parents use that term in a joking way? And he's just copying it? Or he knows it's some sort of threat but no idea what it really means? Or he really understands and intends it as a real threat? I think the latter is really unlikely. Report it to the school as it's upsetting your son, perhaps use the party to see how the boy interacts and what language he uses.

There was a bbc report last October about primary school children bringing knives to school. Kent police recorded an incident of a 4 year old bringing a knife. In another case a 6 year old had a flick knife. So threats to kill should be taken seriously.

To answer some other questions, I don't think my son is actually worried this kid would hurt me or his dad, I think it's just very upsetting to him that someone he sees as a friend would keep saying this.

I have met one parent once, and my husband has met both. They seem normal and nice enough although obviously I guess you never really know from outside appearances. They moved to the area last summer so the child has had that disruption and changed schools etc.

My son wanted to kill me once as I took him on a walk

No safeguarding, just a little boy who didn't want to go on a walk, he described over 10 ways he would kill me! In great detail

We then got to a cafe in the caves - he had chips a coke and a ice cream, played in a cave and said it was the best day ever

Just tell your son to laugh it off

I’d be uninviting him to the party, there’s no way I’d make my children have someone at the party who was being horrible to them - actions have consequences. The suggestion upthread about letting the mother know the children aren’t getting on is a good one. You need a meeting with the school as this is really upsetting your son and I’d be letting the school know I don’t want them playing together so lunchtime supervisors can keep an eye out. Threatening to kill someone’s is an awful thing to say and these things play on children’s minds, no wonder he’s not keen to go to school and it sounds like this child is targetting your son. I’m all for teaching resilience but this is bullying.