GCSE reduced subjects advice needed

[Arizona29]

I started a different thread about this yesterday but am starting a new one here because I've got a new question and I know many readers never read OP updates on a thread!
DS year 9 had been put onto a GCSE pathway for additional support.
He has no SEN diagnosed.
He has never had any intervention classes at school.
School have never made me aware at any point since year 7 that they feel DS needs additional support.
I have not received any communication whatsoever about him being put on to an additional support GCSE pathway. It has been like a bolt out of the blue and I only found out on Monday.
Parents evening last week made no mention of it.
So I spoke to a member of staff about it today.
It is not a mistake, as suggested by posters on my other thread.
The member of staff has told me the following:
That DS has been put on a pathway for year 10 & 11 where he will study
Maths
English
Science
1 humanity OR 1 language (his choice but only 1 of these)
2 practical based subjects of his choice such as DT, art, music, cookery, dance, photography, etc.
3 extra Maths intervention sessions a fortnight
3 extra English intervention sessions a fortnight
He cannot choose 2 humanities.
He cannot choose 1 humanity & 1 language.
He cannot choose 2 humanities & 1 language.
it is 1 humanity only.
He is only 1 of 16 students who has been put on this pathway out of the whole of year 9.
The 'standard' Ebacc pathway is
English, maths, science, 1 humanity, 1 language, then 2 further options which can include a second humanity, even a third one, but DS had not been given this pathway as an option.
I was confused when I posted on my other thread yesterday, and I remain confused.
I still don't understand how DS has been put on this additional support pathway with no communication whatsoever about any learning delay or concerns whatsoever from school in the 2.5 years he's been there.
I asked this question directly today, and it wasn't answered. It was glossed over.
DS is really upset.
A. He doesn't want to do only 1 humanity and no language. He feels he's had all his choices removed from him.
B. He says nobody at school has talked to him about this.
C. He feels excluded from the standard pathway that all his friends are doing.
D. He is asking me do his school think he's stupid and incapable
E. He fears stigma about this amongst his peers, and feels he is going to get comments and 'jokes' about not being able to do what everyone else is doing.
He has never had a conversation with, or any input from, the SenCo.
I have never had a conversation with the SenCo about DS.
The SenCo has never contacted me about DS to discuss him.
Again, he has no SEN.
So.
My questions to people here who have knowledge and experience:

1. What the hell is going on here?
2. Can they enforce this? Does DS have any choice or any say in the matter??
3. What right do school have to remove his choice to do 2 humanities, or 1 humanity + 1 language? Without any prior conversation with him or with me?
4. AIBU to feel they are 'dumbing down' his options?
5. Why does DS have to choose 2 options from a list of practical subjects? This isn't the pathway he wants to follow - cookery, or DT, or dance, or drama, etc. But he's now got to pick 2 of these subjects.

The list of the 2 extra choices on the standard Ebacc pathway contains additional academic choices.
Whereas the list of 2 extra choices on the additional support pathway DS has been placed on contains no academic choice whatsoever.
If he only does Maths, English, Science + 1 humanity, plus 2 practical non academic subjects, is this going to exclude him from doing A levels and a degree??
DS most definitely wants a career that will require A levels and degree. Will this additional needs pathway block him from going on to do A levels & degree because he won't have enough GCSE subjects?
DS is an intelligent boy. I can't believe the school are restricting his GCSE choices like this and putting him on this pathway, having never once put him into any additional intervention measures since starting in year 7.
His year 9 assessment scores were all below the year group average. Not way below. But they were below. His results do not reflect his intelligence or capability. He said he knew all the answers but didn't get to complete the assessments as ran out of time. So the unanswered questions that he hadn't got to pulled his total score down, even though all the questions he did answer were correct.
Basically I feel like I've got an intelligent boy who hasn't performed well in the year 9 assessments and as a result has been placed on an intervention GCSE pathway that enforces a reduced number of GCSEs and being forced to take 2 practical subjects instead, yet with no consent from or discussion with DS or myself about this.
I have tried really hard to speak to the SenCo since Monday when I found this out, but I am not receiving any replies to the emails I have sent her requesting for her to contact me to discuss this. I've been told this has all been based on her recommendation, yet she's never even had a conversation with me or with DS.
I am really worried aboug the impact this will have on DS's options, choices, future success and I'm worried about this affecting his self esteem.
Only 16 kids out of an entire huge year 9 cohort have been assessed as unable to do the Ebacc route and my intelligent DS is one of them? He's in the bottom 10% of kids who isn't allowed to do the standard Ebacc pathway that the other 90% of kids are following and yet he has no SEN and has never been given additional interventions at school and who is really bright?
From what I know of his blunt and highly insensitive and never-endingly mocking peers, he is not wrong when he says he is going to get put downs and negative comments from peers about this.
He has such hopes for his future career and these restricted and limited GCSEs are going to block that, because his career hopes require A levels & degree.
Help😞

My son was flying through school until year 9. Then his grades started to fall. The school didn't do anything about it, they just thought he was lazy and a day dreamer. After, multiple meetings dozens of emails and me fighting his corner his was diagnosed with narcolepsy in year 12. You must be his advocate.

What options do you have?

Can you change school if necessary?

Can you get an educational psychologist assessment in the next few weeks.. or arrange one and inform school that you wish to hold off on making decisions before the results of that assessment?

Maybe the SEN board might be able to steer you in the right direction.

I picked two searches from Google..

https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/understanding-diagnosing-and-coping-with-slow-processing-speed/

https://cfpsychology.co.uk/children/cognitive-assessments-for-children/?_gl=17gz8rn_upMQ.._gs*MQ.. Average of 3 weeks to get an appointment and cost of £950.. so quite a significant amount.

I think you have grounds to ask for additional time to investigate the reasons why your son performed poorly on the year 9 assessments and whether it is possible for him to be supported to remain on the standard pathway.

Good luck.. fight for him!!

I don't know, it seems feasible to me that some things wouldn't be picked up until the child had to sit formal exams, and the first time would be in year 9 I guess? Aside from the year 6 SATS which I assume are quite different in their level of difficulty so maybe he managed them better.

I agree that there is likely more going on here with the DS and it doesn't sound like he would have been in line for top sets but even so it seems the school have handled it quite badly to not inform him or his parents about what his performance in the assessments would mean for his GCSE choices. Unless they did inform him and he didn't pass it on to OP, given he hadn't told her that he failed to complete exam papers in the given time.

I think the issue is OP and other posters are conflating intelligence with academic ability. You can be bright and switched on, but not able to learn to an academic standard. There's no shame in it either. Lots of children do badly at school but thrive when taking vocational qualifications. I've actually started a thread in Further Education about bouncing back from poor GCSE results with BTECs. Lots of amazing success stories in it!

I think you also need to get your school to share their criteria for passing to A Levels and if they don't do A Levels to share the outcomes and subsequent paths taken by the students who have taken the reduced pathway.

It is true that A Levels are not for everyone but if no students on the reduced pathway take A Levels then you have a right to demand that you be given time to investigate why your apparently previously average student is now being placed at the bottom 10% without and attempt to understand if he could be supported to continue to achieve at his previously average level.

Can you get hold of his SATS? and any other assessments? Build an argument as to why this 10% assessment does not reflect the bright intelligent boy that you see.

If it is because he only completed 25% of the assessment in the time available but got everything correct.. then the first thing to investigate would be processing speed, to see if more time and focused support to help him improve his speed in exams would be sufficient to allow him to achieve his potential.

My son is doing A levels without a language at GCSE- not a problem (obviously not doing the language at A Level though). I can't imagine how many humanities he did being a problem either, again it might limit A level choices though.

First of all I want to empathise, I totally understand that this is difficult for you and your son. However, I think that there are a few things you need to untangle. The important thing now is deciding how best to move forward.

From what you have said, the communication from the school has been poor. I think sometimes messaging about attainment can, be a bit opaque to say the least. I would also totally agree that a discussion with your son (and possibly yourself) should have happened to talk through why he has been offered this pathway. However, this didnt happen and to some extent I think you need to put that to one side.

To make decisions about what to do next, you have to look honestly at his attainment. At my DD's school although parents evening is often 'a nice chat', we get a progress report with some very blunt info. For every subject, we get their predicted GCSE grade (based on Y6 SATs), the grade they would need to be at at the end of their current academic to meet that, the grade they are currently working at (based mainly on their most recent assessment) and whether they are at/below/above target. Even without that info, for setted subjects it is possible to work out where they sit in the cohort (& because the school gets roughly average results) the likely GCSE grade range. They have set 1, set 2 and two equivalent set 3s. If you are in set 1 you are in the top 25% and 6/7+ is likely possibly, set 2 will likely be 4-6 and set three mainly 4 and below with a few 5s. 4+ is possible from set 3, but roughly a quarter of the cohort wont achieve a 4 in year 11. At DD's school children can and do move sets based on performance. SATs dont define your set. If you do well in assessments you move up, do less well (even if you did well on SATs) you move down.
On MN every child can seem to be getting 7+ and doing A levels. However, lots of kids arent. Unless this is an admin error, this wont have been done randomly. They will be looking at your son's current attainment and likely progress. Even though it is difficult, I think you and your son need to look at the concrete info you have about his attainment (sets, grades, scores relative to cohort average etc.) and discuss how he is doing and if he stays on the same trajectory how he is likely to do at GCSE. Passes in english & maths will be really important going forward. If a smaller number of GCSEs and some extra maths and english support will help him achieve these, it might be the right pathway for him. If he does well with this reduced number of GCSEs, A levels and uni will be possible.

If after looking at the attainment info you have, you think they are significantly under-estimsting his likely trajectory then I would push for a meeting with a relevant staff member to discuss. They might change it if you present a strong case, but I dont think you can force them. I do think you can expect them to discuss it with you though. Unless you can change school, you are going to have to work with them.

I totally get the emotional impact. Kids can make snidey comments and it doesnt feel great to find out your child isnt doing as well as you hoped/expected. However, you really need to put that to one side and think about what is best for your son. Real friends wont give a shit what pathway he is on. Whichever pathway he is on, if he works hard and does well in the offered qualifications he will have options at level 3.

I haven't read through all of the replies so I am probably repeating other's but it sounds like he will still be able to obtain GCSEs in
English lit
English lang
Maths
Science
Science
Humanity or Lang
Practical option
Practical option

That's 8 GCSEs and will no way block entry to A levels or a degree.

Can you afford an Educational Psychology report to identify his strengths and weaknesses?

Can you afford a tutor for maths and English?

TbH if he is in bottom sets then I would grab this with both hands as it will increase his chances of passing those GCSEs.

I would ask for a meeting with the senco. Ask what tests they will be doing? Will he get extra time in exams?

Finally what were his yeat 6 SATs scores?

I agree with this. That is why the OP's son may do better on the reduced GCSE pathway. I do agree with the OP though that the communication about it has been very badly handled by the school.

English, maths, science, 1 humanity or language, 2 practical subjects. No more. That's 6. So that makes me worried because that's 2 less than the normal amount.

Here you generally need 5 GCSE at level 2 pass (4/5 in England) for A-levels including maths and English Lang - depends on area and subjects wanted at A-level - plus there is Btec route to uni as well as alternative to A-levels.

All post 16 choices are easier if you get English Language and Maths and 3 other subjects at least level 4 better level 5 ( C in wales).

Is the English just English Language - one everyone looks for or would it be two GCSE ie include English Lit - I'd e-mail Head of English and English teacher ask why he been put on thsi pathway what GCSE they currently expect and do they think the extra support is needed for your son.

I would do the same for maths - his current teacher and head of department - what level is he at what are you looking at for GCSE grade and are they aware this path has been suggested and do they think it us what he needs.

Then you'd be clear if this extra maths and english support is needed. Ideally that would have been clear from reports and p/t meet but DC school not always been clear and often had to be very direct to get answers.

Is science - single - double or tripe - first question - then is he wanting to do A-levels in science - if so he'll need double GCSE at min.

Then I'd e-mail head, head of year, current form tutor - and ask why this has come out the blue - no-one spoken to DS or you about why this is needed and why it's best for your DS. So you'd like to know why this us being suggested for him - what data is this based on. I'd also raise the pratcical subjects that he's not really interetsed in them, doesnt show aptitude for and they don't match his career aspirations - are these being offered because they fit round extra maths/English lessons or for other reasons.

Then I'd again e-mail SENCO and CC head in - ask if he been tested for anything - if they'be had any input into the pathway for DS being offered and if they or you should be looking at testing him for underlying problems before GCSE start.

That would be what I'd do first if it was one of mine - and I'd expect reponses in a few days - if not I'd email/letter write again reminding them of their internal deadlines for chocises to be set and asking for reponse.

This could be a good thing for him - certainly better than many of DD2 friends who were dropping last minute with no extra support for core subjects. However the schools communication seems very poor and you may need to be very direct and very persistant to get information needed to make best choice for him.

It’s not 2 less science is classed as 2 or 3 GCSEs (depending on dual award or separate sciences) and English is usually 2 (English language and English literature)

My children are in an academically selective school and they are allowed complete freedom of choices and the Ebacc route is not pushed, it’s not longer looked on in the same way as it was and is often used as a way to measure school performance but has no real impact on A levels/university

i have one daughter now doing a levels and receiving university place offers who did 2 languages and 2 creative subjects as well as the core subjects and no humanity

my next daughter is GCSE year she has not chosen any languages but has chosen 1 humanity and 2 creative subjects and the school have decided to drop the choices to 9 total rather than 10 for the whole school and to teach content in greater depth as universities often only require 6-8 depending on course but there must be a pass in maths and English so the fact they are offering more support for those to your son is important.

if he is underperforming in assessments the practical subjects offer a big chunk of overall grade as coursework so there is less pressure come exam time. the allows exam focus on core subjects

it’s important he is allowed to take anything he wants to take for A level at GCSE but other than that it doesn’t matter too much, it’s much more important to choose subjects that give him the best chance to do well, have a look at some of the entrance requirements for the degree course he may be interested in to reassure yourself

What did he get in his KS2 SATS?
Did he do Cat4 in year 7/8?

Just to see the other data points they are using and get to the bottom of this.

He's doing 7 or 8:
Science will be 2, English 1 or 2.

OP please don't panic. Even if A levels end up not suiting him, there's more than one way to 'skin a cat'. Friend of mine was crap at exams, did BTecs at 6th form college then kept going back for more and more higher level ones. He ended up with degree equivalent and is a bigwig in aerospace engineering now.

Or if your son doesn't get the GCSEs for the A levels he wants, he could take more at 6th form college, or do diplomas/ access courses. People often do different things before 6th form college so it's not weird to be a year or 2 older starting A levels there.

Focus on what will get him the best grades for now, one step at a time.

This year our school implemented a new system, parents and students received a letter with a pathway written on the top.

Your child then chose the subjects based on the pathway that had been chosen for them.

The pathway was based on several factors.

My child was pathway X some of her friends were pathway Y.

The difference in the pathways were the number of subjects they could take at GCSE.

I don’t see a problem with this?

It is not indicative of SEN, it’s putting each student on a pathway that will help them excel.

Science and English will be x 2 so it is 8.

8 is fine.

As a point of information, no-one has to do both English language and literature. Only English language is the golden key for getting in to colleges and universities. My two dyslexic sons only did English language and one has now graduated and the other has uni offers. They also didn’t do languages and they only did one humanity.

Lots of A level humanities subjects don’t need a GCSE (eg media studies, psychology, sociology). My DD did A level history having not done the GCSE.

OP I can understand your anxiety but (apart from the compulsory creative subjects) the school’s proposal might not be so bad. But you do need to get to the bottom of the time issues. I’m not a professional but I do have dyslexic children and it sounds like dyslexia to me.

When you have a school this bad at communictaion don't assume anything - get it in writing if it would be two English GCSE or just English Language.

Be very clear what you are signing up for.

Keep what they say - and try and get it in wirting in case thing change again with no notice or information - so you can refer back and ask more questions.

Bright kids don't end up in the bottom sets. Perhaps the middle sets if they have undiagnosed SEN, but the bottom set kids are usually the lowest ability/achievers or those who refuse to do the work.

My Necie was in bottom set for maths - she got 4 in end but got 6 for English and 9 in art and 9 in photography - she went on to Btec route but is now applying to uni courses. Sometimes you get spiky profiles and talents.

Also depends on school selective school bottom sets are likely higher standard than bottom sets at school in speacial measures.

When he did his assessments how did he say they went at the time? Did he just say Ok or did he say he didn't finish? Teens often don't say much.

I would be going in to school and not moving until I got answers. I would be emailing every one of his teachers and copying in the head of year head of key stage and the head of school and the chair of governors if need be.

You've had some good advice in the thread so hopefully you're feeling a bit less 'deer in headlights'.
Make a plan - what does DS want to do? What A levels is he after? Not doing a language doesn't matter at all despite what schools say. Look at the next stage and make sure his GCSE's get him there.

Look carefully at the practical options being suggested - they can be a huge amount of work/time...Art is a killer for taking a huge amount of time. Then you need to sit down with the school and tell them what you want, including dyslexia screening as an urgent actions with the head of SEN. They can do a screening that will highlight issues. Not finishing exams is classic processing issue, if he was given 25% extra time it might well make the world of difference. Ask the SEN to calculate his grades based on the amount finished - that will give you an idea of his understanding of the subject without the speed issue.

If you can afford it get him a full assessment at somewhere recommended by British Dyslexia Association or similar charity. https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/services/assessments

In this country, passing Maths and English GCSEs is generally seen as the most important thing. Sounds to me like the school has decided some kids may not pass and have put them in this select intervention group for that reason. They then decided those kids would as a group prefer creative subjects around that. Which does not apply to the OPs DS who would prefer a 2nd humanity and a language. They probably feel they can’t timetable that just for the OPs DS.

I can completely understand the OPs frustration. Sadly in the hierarchy of state education it’s maths English and science all the way now with humanities/languages as an after thought. Which is both dangerous to society as according to all the great writers you need critical thought. It’s also unfair on the OPs DS as he appears stronger in those than the subjects the current system uses to define intelligence.

NRTFT but surely they're doing him a favour. At A level it's the grade they're looking at as long as you have 5/6 GCSEs at the equivalent of an old C. Even most college courses are looking for 5 GCSEs at grade C (4/5). By cutting his subjects down he'll have a better chance at this. No college will care if he has 20 GCSES at grade 3.
Did you really not have any clue? Even SATs project GCSE grades. You must have had grades for years, that even without streaming of sets can't have been high. If they were high then it must be a mistake.
He may not be putting the work in or not be as bright as you believe. You keep saying about SEN. My SEN DN aced his GCSES at grade 9. SEN isn't a marker of intelligence. If you or school haven't asked for any referrals by now or haven't noticed, it's probably not the case.
Both you and your DS seem quite concerned about what others think, I would have been pleased if this had been offered to my 2DS who were projected average grades.
There are plenty of pupils with high aspirations that will never get 10 grade 8/9s. I was realistic with DSs. They studied vocational courses in college, were accepted on great apprenticeships and now have careers they love, with the bonus of no student loans. DD was academic, GCSES all 8/9s, grade A, A levels in physics, maths and chemistry (she won the academic chemistry prize), and is now studying for a Masters in mathematical physics. What's right for one is not always right for another. I don't think this is the kick in the teeth you both think this is.

Your already aware you need to get in front of someone senior OP, I wouldn't usually advise this but I would in this case turn up at school and ask to speak to his Head of Year. I wouldn't be leaving til they made a slot and explained this properly(and I do work in education so I know they are snowed under).

I will advise you from the other side though, I was a child who ultimately decided to put myself on a reduced pathway at school, the school didn't want to because I was capable but didn't have much choice but to go with it in the end.
I wasn't struggling academically, in fact I was more than capable of achieving a lot more but it was too much, for reasons totally different to your DS but still.
It's quality not quantity that matters here, and if your DS is struggling with the time limits on assessments A-Levels are going to be really hard for him.

Have you looked at what the requirements are for the further A-Levels he wants to do? Different sixth forms and colleges have slightly different requirements or options too.

Of course this may be a big mix up, and you do need to get to the bottom of it today/tomorrow before half term, but if it is not a mix up please try to see the positive in this, it could be the difference between 4s in a lot or 6/7s in a few.

Just to reiterate, OP: you don't need 8 GCSEs to do A Levels, and you don't need a MFL (unless you want to study a MFL at A Level).

It does depend on the college, but around here you need 6 GCSEs, 2 need to be at grade 6 or above, and 2 of those GCSEs need to be Maths and English. Individual A levels may have different requirements - eg you need a Grade 7 in Maths to do it at A level.

You can check this yourself by googling 'entry requirements" with the name of any college local to you.

You can also drop subjects at any time. Eg. my son dropped Spanish GCSE (as he was going to fail it anyway) in year 11. We were told by school it was 'impossible', so I spoke to the exam boards who said 'that's fine' - and school then had to admit that it was possible (they just didn't like it).

In our experience:

• high schools go completely overboard about the number of GCSEs a child needs and how important they are
• they only need 6
• you can reduce the number of GCSEs if you want to give your child less stress and more time to focus on the things they're good at or want to study at A Level
• colleges are more relaxed, and you can speak to them now to find out what your son's options are - to put your mind at rest
• you can change your mind quite late in the day.

I know this has come out of the blue, but you need to do some research and then advocate for him - about what HE wants, and also what's best for / most realistic for him.

Schools pretend they can dictate but in our experience they will back down when presented with a calm, factual and considered alternative. They will start with 'no' but they won't sit with it.

And forget the 27th: it is not a real deadline. This is a fault of the school's making and so they now need to give all parties the time to adequately plan what happens next.

Calm, factual, informed is the way through. You can do this - and your son will be fine x

Is he struggling or coasting? Unfortunately there is only so long that being “bright” can carry them through if there are other barriers to learning. Being in the lowest Maths set suggests he is struggling to manage and process the curriculum content. If he is quiet in class he may already be aware of his difficulties compared to peers and is trying not to be noticed. You need to tackle this from different directions. If this is really the first indication , the school has let you and your ds down by not being clearer and suggesting interventions. Year 9 is not too late too address this but you will need to be proactive in asking for advice on what he needs to do to “catchup”, assessments, exam access arrangements such as extra time or laptop use, opportunities for learning support and so on. Could you get him a tutor to consolidate his learning and if so , what would be the possibility of him moving pathway if he improved academically?

If he wants to do a different set of subjects he can request them but realistically he needs as many level 2/gcse at the best grades he can achieve. That tends to be when they follow subjects they enjoy and engage with most. Minimum would be 5 passes including English and Maths but individual schools/colleges will set their own entry grades for A levels, usually grade 6 or above. Help him put together the case for what he wants, speak to those subject teachers and get them on board but if he is on this pathway the timetable may limit choices so be prepared. If he has strong ideas beyond gcse work back from there. Do students on this pathway take Foundation rather than Higher papers as this will limit his potential attainment to grade 5 in some subjects. The school’s deadline is internal and arbitrary, plenty of others would not make such a definitive decision this early. If he were to prove himself when do they actually finalise the timetable and teaching groups?

Yes I agree , I mentioned that my son did music, and no languages or humanities, but never meant it to come across as an easy option, even for him it was hard (and he plays 3 instruments and did grades in them etc outside school)

it was a good subject for him to choose as he genuinely loves music

but def not an easy option at all

it was just to show that there is not really one-size-fits-all and the Ebac isn’t the best choice for everyone