GCSE reduced subjects advice needed

[Arizona29]

I started a different thread about this yesterday but am starting a new one here because I've got a new question and I know many readers never read OP updates on a thread!
DS year 9 had been put onto a GCSE pathway for additional support.
He has no SEN diagnosed.
He has never had any intervention classes at school.
School have never made me aware at any point since year 7 that they feel DS needs additional support.
I have not received any communication whatsoever about him being put on to an additional support GCSE pathway. It has been like a bolt out of the blue and I only found out on Monday.
Parents evening last week made no mention of it.
So I spoke to a member of staff about it today.
It is not a mistake, as suggested by posters on my other thread.
The member of staff has told me the following:
That DS has been put on a pathway for year 10 & 11 where he will study
Maths
English
Science
1 humanity OR 1 language (his choice but only 1 of these)
2 practical based subjects of his choice such as DT, art, music, cookery, dance, photography, etc.
3 extra Maths intervention sessions a fortnight
3 extra English intervention sessions a fortnight
He cannot choose 2 humanities.
He cannot choose 1 humanity & 1 language.
He cannot choose 2 humanities & 1 language.
it is 1 humanity only.
He is only 1 of 16 students who has been put on this pathway out of the whole of year 9.
The 'standard' Ebacc pathway is
English, maths, science, 1 humanity, 1 language, then 2 further options which can include a second humanity, even a third one, but DS had not been given this pathway as an option.
I was confused when I posted on my other thread yesterday, and I remain confused.
I still don't understand how DS has been put on this additional support pathway with no communication whatsoever about any learning delay or concerns whatsoever from school in the 2.5 years he's been there.
I asked this question directly today, and it wasn't answered. It was glossed over.
DS is really upset.
A. He doesn't want to do only 1 humanity and no language. He feels he's had all his choices removed from him.
B. He says nobody at school has talked to him about this.
C. He feels excluded from the standard pathway that all his friends are doing.
D. He is asking me do his school think he's stupid and incapable
E. He fears stigma about this amongst his peers, and feels he is going to get comments and 'jokes' about not being able to do what everyone else is doing.
He has never had a conversation with, or any input from, the SenCo.
I have never had a conversation with the SenCo about DS.
The SenCo has never contacted me about DS to discuss him.
Again, he has no SEN.
So.
My questions to people here who have knowledge and experience:

1. What the hell is going on here?
2. Can they enforce this? Does DS have any choice or any say in the matter??
3. What right do school have to remove his choice to do 2 humanities, or 1 humanity + 1 language? Without any prior conversation with him or with me?
4. AIBU to feel they are 'dumbing down' his options?
5. Why does DS have to choose 2 options from a list of practical subjects? This isn't the pathway he wants to follow - cookery, or DT, or dance, or drama, etc. But he's now got to pick 2 of these subjects.

The list of the 2 extra choices on the standard Ebacc pathway contains additional academic choices.
Whereas the list of 2 extra choices on the additional support pathway DS has been placed on contains no academic choice whatsoever.
If he only does Maths, English, Science + 1 humanity, plus 2 practical non academic subjects, is this going to exclude him from doing A levels and a degree??
DS most definitely wants a career that will require A levels and degree. Will this additional needs pathway block him from going on to do A levels & degree because he won't have enough GCSE subjects?
DS is an intelligent boy. I can't believe the school are restricting his GCSE choices like this and putting him on this pathway, having never once put him into any additional intervention measures since starting in year 7.
His year 9 assessment scores were all below the year group average. Not way below. But they were below. His results do not reflect his intelligence or capability. He said he knew all the answers but didn't get to complete the assessments as ran out of time. So the unanswered questions that he hadn't got to pulled his total score down, even though all the questions he did answer were correct.
Basically I feel like I've got an intelligent boy who hasn't performed well in the year 9 assessments and as a result has been placed on an intervention GCSE pathway that enforces a reduced number of GCSEs and being forced to take 2 practical subjects instead, yet with no consent from or discussion with DS or myself about this.
I have tried really hard to speak to the SenCo since Monday when I found this out, but I am not receiving any replies to the emails I have sent her requesting for her to contact me to discuss this. I've been told this has all been based on her recommendation, yet she's never even had a conversation with me or with DS.
I am really worried aboug the impact this will have on DS's options, choices, future success and I'm worried about this affecting his self esteem.
Only 16 kids out of an entire huge year 9 cohort have been assessed as unable to do the Ebacc route and my intelligent DS is one of them? He's in the bottom 10% of kids who isn't allowed to do the standard Ebacc pathway that the other 90% of kids are following and yet he has no SEN and has never been given additional interventions at school and who is really bright?
From what I know of his blunt and highly insensitive and never-endingly mocking peers, he is not wrong when he says he is going to get put downs and negative comments from peers about this.
He has such hopes for his future career and these restricted and limited GCSEs are going to block that, because his career hopes require A levels & degree.
Help😞

hi I have looked at the OP posts but not read the full thread.

My DC's selective school is saying that Ebacc is no longer a consideration in choosing GCSE subjects, in case that helps.

If your DS has performed well in year 7 and 8, then I think that is a very potent argument for raising a concern with the school about them treating him so differently.

I agree that potentially doing 2 subjects with NEAs would be a lot of work - unless DS is passionate about those specific subjects, it doesn't make sense to push him in that direction.

Good luck, you sound like a great mum xx

You need to ask to see the data/ evidence that has underpinned their decisions.

Immediate action - speak to the Head Teacher, Head of Year, Head Of GCSE year groups - essentially the decision makers.
Explain how unhappy you are about lack of communication and how unhappy that this has come at the last minute.
Tell them which subjects he would like to take - tell, not ask.

Do you have any money to spend on an educational psychologist?
It sounds like he has executive function differences. In his exams, it sounds like he is accurate but just doesn't finish it in time.
My friend's DC is clever but often seemed 'away with the fairies' in class, he could have got written off as 'not trying'. They got a thorough report and have mitigations in place at school. One of them is that he gets extra time in exams.
It's an expensive assessment but has made the world of difference to this DC - he sat the 11+ and got a place at grammar school. There is no way he would have passed without extra time

Another way to look at this op is that English and Maths are the most important. So much so if you fail you have to resit. School clearly have concerns DS might be borderline for passing these so are giving him extra lessons to give him extra chance of passing. The fact they hadn’t previously communicated this to you is a separate issue.

TBH the number of gcse isn’t that important and it sounds like he’s doing 7? Or maybe right as I assume he’ll get 2 science instead of 3. Is he doing 2 English?

I would advise fewer GCSEs at better grades is better than more subjects then not passing some.

Definitely talk to school but it does sound like they are trying to put in as much support to get DS the best outcome.

Great advice.
If you can’t afford an educational psychologist ask the school. I’m not sure about the UK, in Ireland support is needs based, ask about extra support, my DD will have extra time, a computer, quite supervised room, she’ll take the routine exams -(she is behind)I think it’s better for her to try.

His year 9 assessment scores were all below the year group average. Not way below. But they were below. His results do not reflect his intelligence or capability. He said he knew all the answers but didn't get to complete the assessments as ran out of time. So the unanswered questions that he hadn't got to pulled his total score down, even though all the questions he did answer were correct.

The person marking can only give a grade for what is written. It does look like he needs support in getting things down on paper.

The practical subjects are also GCSEs so he will have enough for A Levels.

A Levels are not the only route to uni.

People are getting madly hung up on A levels. The OP's ds is obviously struggling at the moment - so focus needs to be on GCSEs, and understanding where he is now.

I think it's worth the OP knowing that A levels are not the only path. I am a typical MN mother, and didn't look beyond them. My third child told me a week into her biology A level that she was going to change to Btec Health & Social. She achieved a Distinction Star for that, equivalent to an A star A level (my DD is very clear that it was much easier to achieve than the A level). She went into her 2 A levels with 1/3 less revision, and a load less stress. And yes RGs (with the exception of the elites) do accept Btechs.

At the risk of sounding like Yoda, OP, I just want to say that there are many paths to a successful life

You are doing absolutely the right thing by trying to contact the head and senior but I would be phoning now rather than emailing due to the deadline. I would also do some basic research into the requirements needs by colleges or 6th form that he would like to go to for A-levels. That way you will have a better understanding of what you are actually querying.

At the moment you just sound in a panic and ill informed when it comes to how his options will affect his future choices.

The only thing I would say is I don't know how you have got to year 9 to now your child is performing poorly in maths or struggling in other subjects. Have you never looked at homework to gauge what level they are at or asked at school? Presuming you are in England, you would have sats at primary school and they would have given you an indication. I'm in Scotland and as we don't have these sorts of tests it is harder to guage particularly if communication from school is poor. However, I do homework with the kids and can tell from the level of the spellings they get and maths questions and how well they can do them whereabouts they are achieving. I have a bright child who has dcd and is often away with the fairies, extra time in exams is likely to be something she needs. I would get a sen assessment even if you have to pay privately.

You just come across as having been quite passive in this respect and expecting school to tell you how he's getting on, their communication has also been very poor! As a parent though I'd expect you to have had some idea at which your child is performing at.

It sounds like they’ve gone about it terribly but if your son isn’t likely to pass his English and Maths without significant additional support the school appear to be doing what would be in his best interests.

Sounds really stressful OP. Get a meeting with the school asap.

Like others have said English is 2 GCSEs and science should be the combined foundation which is easier but still 2 GCSEs.

PE is quite hard and science based and if he has no interest in drama or DT then they can’t force him to take those subjects. What about Business?

They tried to make my DS drop history but not until Yr 11 when it was clear he couldn’t cope with 9 subjects. He refused! So you can push back on the school.

Be forceful.

Can you afford a private educational psychologist assessment? Often things like dyslexia and ADHD only become apparent when the work load increases. The running out of time might indicate an issue with working memory. Intelligent kids fly under the radar often until GCSEs then it all falls apart. This happened with DS. We got him the assessment and he went on to do reasonably well. With medication.

OP I can understand why you're stressed, but this deadline will be being enforced in general across the school so that people don't think they can chop and change subjects past that date, not for a situation like yours where clarification and discussion is clearly needed.

Hopefully the school will come back to you soon and you will be able to have a meeting with the Head of Year or somebody helpful.

I do think you potentially need to be prepared for them to stand by their recommendation though given that your DS has been unable to finish his assessments, which does point to an issue (even if it's just exam anxiety) which could severely affect his performance in GCSEs and definitely could prevent him doing A-Levels/Degree if he fails them.

I think you are panicking a bit, you need to breathe.

First as others have explained, English is 2 as is Science, so he would have 8.

Second you have until the end of the month, and even with half term there is time to sort this.

Next, the HT is saying to everyone they can't change their mind, but that is so they can timetable things. At minimum you could ask to put in 2 forms whilst thus gets sorted out, one for normal pathway and one for the SEN route.

8 GCSEs is fine for A levels. However there are also BTECs which you can go onto university with (see the threads in Further Education).

So deep breath.

In your situation I would

• put in 2 forms
• get a meeting with form tutor / senco / whoever made the pathway decision
• ask for processing screening

But you need to keep an open mind. Doing fewer subjects may allow him to succeed better. If this is the case then 'his friends laughing at him' is not a good reason for him to be on the wrong pathway.

6 GCSEs in those subjects would be more than enough to do A levels and go to university. You can’t go to university without a pass in Maths and English though. Taking a reduced number of GCSES and getting higher grades could be the best option.

My main concern would be that he is being limited to choosing “practical” subjects.

If he does need extra support in Maths and English, they aren’t going to be suitable choices at A level. He isn’t interested in the practical subjects so they aren’t going to be great A level choices for him. That leaves him with a choice of sciences (which require good maths skills)) plus whatever language or humanity he picks or a subject that you are allowed to start from scratch at A level eg psychology. His A level options are being severely restricted.

Practical GCSES aren’t an easy option. Subjects like art are a real time thief because of the amount of coursework. Not a great choice if he needs to concentrate on revising on his other subjects. Some practical subjects require talent eg music, art, PE. You can still do well without talent because they have a lot of academic work too but it seems madness to suggest that a student that the school thinks needs academic support takes a subject that requires academic ability and a practical ability or skill that they may not have 🤷‍♀️

And if he isn’t interested in a subjects, he won’t do well.

A reduced number of GCSES might be the best option but I would be fighting the school restricting his choices to practical subjects. I suspect it might be a one size fits all approach to make timetabling easier.

Kindly, he may be bright and intelligent but his scores are below average for his yesr group and he has been moved down to bottom set for Maths. Unless he is at a selective school this suggests otherwise OR it suggests there is a possible undiagnosed SEN such as slow processing or dyslexia especially as you mention his scores were low because he failed to finish papers. If possible and you can afford it have him assessed privately ASAP so that you know for sure and can address the situation with the school.

I would make an appointment with the Head or HOY and get to the bottom of why they have decided this course of action.

In the absence of SEN or a change of mind by them the other option is to try to change schools.

The only thing I would say is I don't know how you have got to year 9 to now your child is performing poorly in maths or struggling in other subjects. Have you never looked at homework to gauge what level they are at or asked at school?

WHY do people keep saying things like this to OP???

She has been quite clear that at parents evenings and in reports her DS has always been reported as performing as expected, which is why this is such a shock.

It seems that the formal year 9 exams/assessments are what have flagged this issue, rather than his more general performance, aside from being moved down a set in maths recently.

What he needs to access A levels will depend on the school or college he goes to. Some ask for 8 or more grade 8s and 9s. Others would accept 5 x grade 5s. Check what’s available locally - don’t just look at your school.

As an aside, bottom set Maths could mean he’ll find science a bit of a struggle. Please don’t insist on him following a pathway that you think he deserves, or that makes him feel better. Have an open mind and be prepared to accept that this pathway may be more suitable. It’s never nice being told your kid isn’t that strong academically, but you need to find a way to get him the best results given he appears to be struggling a bit.

Can I also suggest you look into A level alternatives - BTECs, T levels etc. Great for kids that don’t get everything down on paper at one end of year exam, but still enable him to go to uni. A levels may not be the right path for him.

Sorry, long reply incoming @Arizona29

If you genuinely feel he is bright, but he was not able to get down on paper in the allotted time what he needed to, and so underperformed, then I am afraid you need to consider that he DOES have SEN needs.

In y9 a teacher casually referenced my DS’s autism at a parents evening, because her own boys were on the spectrum so she recognised it. We were left reeling… he did not have a diagnosis and no concerns had ever been raised. When I spoke to school they said they are not allowed to raise the possibility of SEN unless we raised it first. We were oblivious [despite having an older child with AuDHD and being ND friendly, so to speak... it presents completely differently from one child to another, one sex to another so we ‘missed it’]. When we asked why no-one had raised it with us when it was obviously impacting his in class performance and confidence, the Dty Head said ‘it never seemed the right time’.

Cue: frantic scramble to secure private assessments as NHS waiting lists would not allow us resolve his support and accommodation needs before GCSEs. He got extra time added to his exams very last minute [which sounds to be what your DS may need], but without additional support in class/lessons so it was still too late: he got 7 mediocre GCSEs and a BTEC but no place at 6th form as they required 7s.

He is now at a fab tech college, predicted A/A* in A Levels and off to uni interviews this weekend. But only because we had to sort out his assessments and move him to a 6th form setting that was geared towards kids who have an assortment of SEN needs (it’s not a remedial class, just a tech college that offers vocational/BTEC/apprentice courses with a tiny number of A Level and Access course pathways).

So, I think you need to sit with his HT and insist the SENCo is involved. You need to ascertain if they suspect there is a learning support need - autism, ADHD, dyslexia/dyspraxia etc. You need to consider whether you can fund getting the assessment done privately as you could have everything DS needs in place before he starts year 10. You also need to ascertain whether with that additional support/exam time he might remain on the main pathway, perhaps dropping one subject so that he could attend maths or English support - the latter was my DS’s issue, as was really understanding what was needed in exam questions - he, too, ‘knew the answers’ but was not understanding that it needed to be evidenced on the answer sheets.

And I would consider external tutoring in these topics/exam techniques as it positively impacts performance in all the other subjects. we did this for DS for Y12 only, and it helped him elevate his post GCSE grades from predicted AS levels of DCC to achieving AAB, so that he is now predicted A*A**A for A levels. The confidence he gained from great tutors really helped.

It cost us a fortune and we had to whack it on credit cards initially, but we felt he only had one shot at GCSEs. And my DH is still fuming that no one raised it with us in y7/8 when we might have got a referral via the GP and an appropriate support plan in school, but we have had to focus on where he is now. His self esteem was shot after his GCSE results and he didn’t speak to any of his class mates again after results day as he felt so humiliated (he’d been predicted 7-9s), though he has bumped into them recently and begun to open up, but only because he has made such progress.

I guess what I am saying is go into this asking - why do you think my bright boy is underperforming? What explanations might there be for why he is unable to get what is in his head onto the exam papers in the standard time allotted - and what assessments does he therefore need you and his dad to arrange? What do you see when you observe my boy in class (ie distractibility, focus, talkativeness, etc). Assuming you can get an assessment done and a diagnostic report highlights an issue, what options does your DS have in Y10/11? Could he potentially stay on a modified version of the main pathway, perhaps dropping a MFL for extra English (this was standard at my DSs school) or will they only consider the supported/reduced pathway. Happy to be DMd if you need.

Doing practical subjects won't prevent him doing A-Levels. Not getting good GCSE grades will. You've said yourself he was working below the expected level, practical subjects are usually easier to pass and the extra intervention will help him pass the essential GCSE's. I'd follow the schools leads on this, it's not in their interests for your DS to fail and they wouldn't go to the trouble of putting limits on him and extra intervention if they didn't feel it was necessary. I'd be unhappy with the lack of communication and be raising this with them but I wouldn't fight against it. They will be putting him on this pathway to give him the best chance of doing well.

@WhatAreYouDoingSundayBaby I’m not entirely sure the op is telling the truth. What were his sats results? Why is he in the bottom set? That’s never academic results “as expected”. Expected for him, maybe, but not against how other dc perform. I think the op has closed her eyes to his academic performance. She believes he’s bright but let’s see exam results. No one is in a bottom set at secondary who is doing well. In fact most are the lowest achievers and always have been. Some slide there because they refuse to work and are difficult to manage. The op really needs to evaluate what’s been happening and not cling to her narrative.

From the sounds of it he is struggling and he needs to focus on getting his English and Maths. He will still be able to do A levels somewhere, and his options as to what A levels may be limited, but not having English and Maths will hold him back more. It’s better to have less GCSEs at a higher grade than more GCSEs at lower grades.

The school aren’t doing this to punish him or be mean to him, this is an attempt to help him. If you really have never heard anything about him struggling then you need to chase up why there was such poor communication, but that’s a separate issue.

@GreenCaterpillarOnALeaf Where I live, few on reduced GCSEs needing additional help go on to do A levels. The op should not be encouraged to think this is a realistic option. Most schools require at least a 6 at GCSE for A levels, and that looks like a stretch. Being realistic and building a career from there is a far better approach.

English is normally 2 separate GCSEs and Science is normally Dual or Triple Award so will be classed as 2 or 3 GCSEs.

@Arizona29 just to flag there’s some misinformation here.

You don’t need eight GCSEs to go to uni. You don’t need eight to go to sixth form. And eight is actually the second commonest number of GCSEs to sit.

Youve had a lot of good advice tho around accepting that your ds needs support and may be better off with a reduced number (8 not 9/10). Honestly I would try to work with the school in this. Unless he wants to do medicine or engineering at uni, he may well be fine with passes at core GCSE subjects and then A levels or Btecs post 16.

Sadly I agree with this. Bright kids don't end up in the bottom sets. Perhaps the middle sets if they have undiagnosed SEN, but the bottom set kids are usually the lowest ability/achievers or those who refuse to do the work.

It's not so much the number of GCSEs that matters for A levels than the grades he gets. Here, they need 6 GCSEs at grade 6 to do A levels. But if you score less, you can do 2 A levels and a Btech, 1A level and 2 Btechs and so on. You need a 6 in English and Maths for A levels here, whatever subject you study. Imo it's not a bad thing to do only 8 and be pushed up for English and Maths. However, i would query the not being able to pick other humanities. Drama is a lot of work and is hard, especially if you need english intervention. Geography would imo be easier. Dance wont be any good if hes not interested, and the coursework is heavy. Same with art or photography. So i would push back on this to make sure he does subjects he can do. My guess is, it is a timetabling issue, where the interventions take place during MFL lessons. I would also have very stern words with him about the effort required. Even if he knows the answers but run out of time (did you check his papers to see if thats true?), unless you manage to get him extra time, thats exactly what will happen in the exams. You need to establish whether hes been coasting because there was no pressure or whether he really need the support. I would then decide whether to push back with the school.