GCSE reduced subjects advice needed

[Arizona29]

I started a different thread about this yesterday but am starting a new one here because I've got a new question and I know many readers never read OP updates on a thread!
DS year 9 had been put onto a GCSE pathway for additional support.
He has no SEN diagnosed.
He has never had any intervention classes at school.
School have never made me aware at any point since year 7 that they feel DS needs additional support.
I have not received any communication whatsoever about him being put on to an additional support GCSE pathway. It has been like a bolt out of the blue and I only found out on Monday.
Parents evening last week made no mention of it.
So I spoke to a member of staff about it today.
It is not a mistake, as suggested by posters on my other thread.
The member of staff has told me the following:
That DS has been put on a pathway for year 10 & 11 where he will study
Maths
English
Science
1 humanity OR 1 language (his choice but only 1 of these)
2 practical based subjects of his choice such as DT, art, music, cookery, dance, photography, etc.
3 extra Maths intervention sessions a fortnight
3 extra English intervention sessions a fortnight
He cannot choose 2 humanities.
He cannot choose 1 humanity & 1 language.
He cannot choose 2 humanities & 1 language.
it is 1 humanity only.
He is only 1 of 16 students who has been put on this pathway out of the whole of year 9.
The 'standard' Ebacc pathway is
English, maths, science, 1 humanity, 1 language, then 2 further options which can include a second humanity, even a third one, but DS had not been given this pathway as an option.
I was confused when I posted on my other thread yesterday, and I remain confused.
I still don't understand how DS has been put on this additional support pathway with no communication whatsoever about any learning delay or concerns whatsoever from school in the 2.5 years he's been there.
I asked this question directly today, and it wasn't answered. It was glossed over.
DS is really upset.
A. He doesn't want to do only 1 humanity and no language. He feels he's had all his choices removed from him.
B. He says nobody at school has talked to him about this.
C. He feels excluded from the standard pathway that all his friends are doing.
D. He is asking me do his school think he's stupid and incapable
E. He fears stigma about this amongst his peers, and feels he is going to get comments and 'jokes' about not being able to do what everyone else is doing.
He has never had a conversation with, or any input from, the SenCo.
I have never had a conversation with the SenCo about DS.
The SenCo has never contacted me about DS to discuss him.
Again, he has no SEN.
So.
My questions to people here who have knowledge and experience:

1. What the hell is going on here?
2. Can they enforce this? Does DS have any choice or any say in the matter??
3. What right do school have to remove his choice to do 2 humanities, or 1 humanity + 1 language? Without any prior conversation with him or with me?
4. AIBU to feel they are 'dumbing down' his options?
5. Why does DS have to choose 2 options from a list of practical subjects? This isn't the pathway he wants to follow - cookery, or DT, or dance, or drama, etc. But he's now got to pick 2 of these subjects.

The list of the 2 extra choices on the standard Ebacc pathway contains additional academic choices.
Whereas the list of 2 extra choices on the additional support pathway DS has been placed on contains no academic choice whatsoever.
If he only does Maths, English, Science + 1 humanity, plus 2 practical non academic subjects, is this going to exclude him from doing A levels and a degree??
DS most definitely wants a career that will require A levels and degree. Will this additional needs pathway block him from going on to do A levels & degree because he won't have enough GCSE subjects?
DS is an intelligent boy. I can't believe the school are restricting his GCSE choices like this and putting him on this pathway, having never once put him into any additional intervention measures since starting in year 7.
His year 9 assessment scores were all below the year group average. Not way below. But they were below. His results do not reflect his intelligence or capability. He said he knew all the answers but didn't get to complete the assessments as ran out of time. So the unanswered questions that he hadn't got to pulled his total score down, even though all the questions he did answer were correct.
Basically I feel like I've got an intelligent boy who hasn't performed well in the year 9 assessments and as a result has been placed on an intervention GCSE pathway that enforces a reduced number of GCSEs and being forced to take 2 practical subjects instead, yet with no consent from or discussion with DS or myself about this.
I have tried really hard to speak to the SenCo since Monday when I found this out, but I am not receiving any replies to the emails I have sent her requesting for her to contact me to discuss this. I've been told this has all been based on her recommendation, yet she's never even had a conversation with me or with DS.
I am really worried aboug the impact this will have on DS's options, choices, future success and I'm worried about this affecting his self esteem.
Only 16 kids out of an entire huge year 9 cohort have been assessed as unable to do the Ebacc route and my intelligent DS is one of them? He's in the bottom 10% of kids who isn't allowed to do the standard Ebacc pathway that the other 90% of kids are following and yet he has no SEN and has never been given additional interventions at school and who is really bright?
From what I know of his blunt and highly insensitive and never-endingly mocking peers, he is not wrong when he says he is going to get put downs and negative comments from peers about this.
He has such hopes for his future career and these restricted and limited GCSEs are going to block that, because his career hopes require A levels & degree.
Help😞

I was also wondering bottom maths set out of how many. You mentioned moving from middle to bottom which suggests three sets and a very small cohort. That doesn’t then suggest he is struggling so much at maths. Different story tbh if it’s bottom set if 10 (say). But even then, if he wants to study politics and English a level he just needs to pass his maths.

Not finishing exam papers - sounds like slow visual processing. My 8yo has a diagnosis of that now. You can get an OT to assess this private without a waiting list. Then you have something to show SenCo.

Agree with meeting with head.

I would look at moving schools tbh.

I do also agree with this.

If he is struggling the risk of overloading him is that he doesn’t get his 5 in English and maths and that shuts off so many future routes

I was that kid who knew the answers but couldn’t physically write fast enough, failed some of my O levels, scraped into uni after someone gave me a few exam tips (ie just do essay plans if you haven’t got time for long answers). I have several degrees now including a PhD. Finally got awarded extra time in exams in my forties after an assessment.

1. of course the school have to make out like it’s a hard deadline because there would be mayhem if they didn’t but your son is one of a v small group so although they won’t say it don’t panic about the deadline.

2. I would pay my last penny to get a private assessment as pps have said (and did this for one of my own)

3. I would organise afterschool tutoring maybe maths and English as they are so important in current system, and because they are foundational for other subjects (school predicted two 4s for my DC , with tutoring and extra time for dyslexia she got two 7s). Is he on board with this as a condition of you fighting his corner? Online or in person tutoring with an A level student can be good value and they know the syllabus. The same DC who had the tutoring also worked as a tutor while still at school.

4. emphasise to school how demotivating this is for him, and how motivating keeping up with his peers will be

5. sounds like it’s been handled badly but the best option for him might be some compromise between their suggestion and the standard.
   all the very best to him and you!

@Arizona29 you mentioned your son is bright, but struggled in an exam setting. Maybe this is because of an issue like @Theonlywayicanloveyou mentioned above. I’m not sure if they offer it at your DSs school, but children like that wouldn’t have their options restricted here, they would be offered a reader/writer in the exam, a longer time to sit the exam or other accommodations. Maybe this might be a way forward for your DS if he can be assessed and the issue identified.
The school absolutely should have made you aware of any issues before now :-(

I would definitely ask for a meeting with the Head.
I would also want to have all of his exam scripts. If he has answered all the questions he got to correctly but didn’t get to the later questions (which tend to be higher marks) then there could possibly be an issue with processing speed or something. The answer to which isn’t to reduce his options academically, but to get him assessed and see whether he would benefit from extra time in exams.
separately - could ask how he is doing in homework and class work. It may be that he would benefit from having the additional maths support and maybe doing fewer subjects in total, but I agree with you that forcing him into cookery or another practical GCSE is pointless if it’s not a subject he has any interest in, or particular flair. (Plus it sends out all sorts of dodgy messages about those subjects being of lesser importance).
bottom line is really that the school can do this. But it absolutely should not have come out of the blue.

This is entirely dependent on the school/college. My DS18 is at one of the top schools in Liverpool. No pupil is excluded from their 6th form for not having taken a MFL GCSE or for not having done 2 humanities. My eldest (25, same school) did take History, Geography, plus MFL, but DS18 did MFL plus Geography only. He is in Y13 doing maths and sciences A levels.

I would expect this decision to be something that school consults parents about, not imposes on them. You need to book an appointment with the HoY, and explain that he has no interest in the creative/practical subjects. My DS25 ignored the recommendation that pupils take one of those subjects (out of 11 GCSEs) and did an entirely old fashioned-type academic set of subjects, whereas I took music and really enjoyed it. DS18 did computing and one creative subject instead of two humanities.

No. Obviously you can't do A Level MFL but you can do A Levels with those choices. Entry on to individual subjects is dependent on grades but in many cases basic entry tends to be 5 x grade 5 passes. It is school dependent though but no, they can't say you have to have done X amount of humanities or language.

Just don't submit the form by 27th Feb if you still need time to speak to school. They have set that deadline for timetabling/option blocks and to allow them to plan ahead.

By the way, I wouldn't email head: email the deputy or AHT that's in charge of curriculum.

What did his Y7 and Y8 data say? You haven't mentioned that but this should also have informed school decisions, rather than one isolated set of Y9 data.

What were his SATS results in Y6? That would give something concrete to go off. Also schools are measured by the progress children make between SATS and GCSEs so it would be unusual for a school to self-sabotage as it were by not giving a child the chance to perform to the best of their ability.

I'm not surprised you are finding it stressful. Communication sounds dreadful. I hope you can speak to someone during the school day today.

It would be helpful to know his grades and his predicated grades shown in numbers (ie is he performing at 1, 2, or 3 for subjects).

All A level programmes are different - some will accept 5 GCSE’s subjects, some 6, some 7, some 8 etc. our local popular over subscribed grammar accepts 8 as long as a min grade average is achieved.

What you need to do to resolve your concern is which school is he hoping for do A levels in and what subjects - and then go to their website to look for their min gcse grades for every entry plus what subjects he might want to do at A level. as some subjects need prerequisites but to be honest most prerequisites are certain grades in Maths and/or English.

kids do either triple or combined science - he’s likely to do combined and even with combined its worth two GCSE’s (triple is worth three).

when you say English is it English and English lit or just English? English and English lit are two GCSE’s. English alone would just be one.

But a bigger problem you have is his grades. He could do 11 GCSE’s … it doesn’t matter the number of GCSE’s he needs certain grades to get into a levels. most a level programmes the min grades is a 7 in the GCSE’s he wants to do a levels in.

to be honest …. the less GCSEs he can get away with the better. It means he can concentrate on getting good grades on maths and English which are essential. My daughter did 8 GCSE’s (including drama, dance, combined science) and not only got into the A level programme at local grammar, but is now at Russel group uni.

my son was at a grammar they said he was underperforming in science and dropped him to gcse combined science. He ended up with two 9s for combined science (worth two GCSE’s) and his grammar school suggested he do science for a level. So go with as little pressure you can get away with I think!

the biggest problem you have (other than his grades) is are there two non academic subjects he thinks he would enjoy?

Do not do this. It won't get you what you want. Teachers can't just change their timetables for irate parents who come in unexpectedly.

That’s not correct- as others have said it really depends on the school but an Ebacc isn’t seen by most as essential- most go on a points score and especially how you performed in the subjects you want to do at A level. My DC is dropping the language they currently study so won’t get the Ebacc.

In your position I would be looking at what the entrance requirements for 6th form are for his current school and local colleges and then speaking to the head of year. If you offer to do extra tuition at your own expense in English and Maths they might be persuaded to change their minds. If they won’t though I think you might need to change school.

But be aware though that they are suggesting this because they think your DS is going to struggle, especially in Maths so is it worth having a really hard look at what he wants to do next? He would be better off with 7 GCSE’s at decent levels, including maths and English, than getting 3s/ 4s across the board and failing maths.

Please calm down. Take a breath and stop panicking.

My DD is 16 and left school last year for college so recently been in the school system. All the comments to go to the Head are not helpful yet.

Email his form tutor. This is the personal responsible for your DS day to day. They will be able to get you the answers you need. Ask to speak to them today.

You have lots of time until end of Feb to fill in the form. It takes 2 mins. For my DS we chose options that were not on the form so it can be done. My DS was project top scores though and found exams easy.

If your DS had the choice what subjects would he choose? What A level does he want to do and where? Look at the intake criteria for the college and the A levels he wants to do. You can use all this TODAY with your discussion with the form tutor to explain why their plan doesn't work for your DS

Finding exams hard is no reflection on intelligence. What are his predicted grades. Have these remained the same since year 7 or have the predictions been lowered?

If he is struggling with English and Maths it sounds like the school are putting a plan in place to ensure he passes these with a strong 4 or 5 as a minimum. Without a 4 he will have resit at college and may not to be able to do the subjects he wants in year 12 and may have to take a year longer - which is fine. Many do.

To do an A level you usually need a 6 or 7 in the subject. So Chemistry A Level a 7 in combined or a 6/7 in separates. The college my DS went insisted on 7s or 8s. as they were high performing and didn't want students to struggle. DDs college are less strict.

The subjects you see as 'less' still come out with a GCSE or equivalent and can be very good as based on assessment and not exams, giving him a chance to score well without the pressure of an exam. DD did a BTEC L1 or 2 animal care, she passed with a L2, is now doing a extended diploma at college (equivalent to 3 A levels) which gives her enough UCAS points to do go to uni. We're looking at zoology or vet nursing at uni for 2027.

This may not be the disaster you are imagining.y .DS considered medicine, they were not bothered about a EBac. Some insisted on 8s or 9s in some GCSE though and good English /Maths. His friend did veterinary, again without a EBac. It's more important to do well in what you study (5s. 6s or higher).

My DD got mostly 5s (she's dyslexic) and plans to go to uni. My DS got mostly 9s and is in yr 2 at uni.

Calm listening to the advice school give you to ensure your DS leaves with strong English and Maths and other subjects. If he's not finishing exams and his teachers are noticing him, have they plans to assess him for extra time to give him the opportunity to finish more questions.

Look at what you think he wants to do in the future and confirm if this will be possible or not and then speak to school calmly.

Gosh that is so helpful, thank you.
What you've explained is more helpful than anything the school has told me, or rather hasn't told me, since they haven't told me anything.
Sorry to sound dumb but when you say 8 GCSEs is completely normal in state schools, what DS is going to be doing is 6:
English, maths, science, 1 humanity or language, 2 practical subjects. No more. That's 6. So that makes me worried because that's 2 less than the normal amount.

Science is normally a double or triple award so counts as 2 or 3 GCSEs,

What subjects would he like to do at A-level? That would normally dictate what options he will choose. If he is in bottom set for maths/English then the extra study time for these subjects would be helpful as it is essential to pass both to move on to A-level. I think if he knows what A-levels he would choose then look at the entry requirements for those courses and make sure he can choose subjects for GCSE that will keep those options open.

I would accept the reduced number of GCSEs to allow extra Maths and English tuition, but would ask the school to allow him to follow his chosen courses for the remaining options, rather than the DT / Drama ect.

I am genuinely not sure that the school could enforce this situation.

English is one subject on the timetable but two GCSEs - English language and English literature.

Science is one subject on the timetable but can be either one, two or three GCSEs depending on which course he is doing. It’s possible to do three GCSEs each in chemistry physics biology (known as triple science). Or he can do Combined Award (two GCSEs). Or there is single award - I have a feeling England doesn’t do this anymore but Wales and Northern Ireland definitely do.

maths is only ever one gcse although some schools offer either statistics gcse or additional maths gcse to top set students.

OP it is off from the school but you do seem unusually passive about his education.

At this point most parents would have taken the day off work amd would be camping outside the head's office threatening hell fire and brimstone until it's sorted. Not sending emails to the senco. If you want to sort it, go to the school and stay there until you get what you want.

English is two GCSEs - Eng lit and Eng lang. The poster who talks about "English" as a singular GCSE is incorrect as there is no such GCSE as far as I know.

Science is two – combined science (most likely - I doubt he will be taking three separate sciences). Combined science doesn't stop you doing science A levels.

So he will be taking eight. IMHO it’s the creatives he doesn;t want to do that you need to focus on. What A levels does he want to do? and what degree?

English is 2. English language and English literature. I assume he’d be doing both, or has he been told he can’t do literature?
I would have thought science was combined science, which is also 2 GCSEs.

OP without wanting to kick you while you’re down, you do sound very ill-informed about all of this. Have there not been any meetings at school when they talk about GCSEs? At my kids school there were several pre-GCSE meetings when they told us how it all worked.

Science is the clarity point here. That could be 3 subjects. And listen OP, it sounds like he’s been struggling so just listen to what they are saying. My DD16 left school last year, went to the FE college, she had a reduced GCSE timetable but did the 8 and got extra support in maths. He can still do A levels but also consider there are different paths.

I wouldn’t have expected to be told at parents evening, secondary school teachers only generally know what is going on in their individual classes, they don’t know about SENCO pathway decisions.

You should have been informed by the SENCO team and had the ability to discuss it. The decision to reduce his humanities based subjects means they think he will struggle with lots of essays. Is this the case?

Why move school when current school is trying to meet need. Communication isn't great but the offer is positive.
As stated in previous thread. What were his current grade and targets in reports.
Many schools target 3/4 borderline English and maths students for extra intervention.

His year 9 assessment scores were all below the year group average. Not way below. But they were below. His results do not reflect his intelligence or capability. He said he knew all the answers but didn't get to complete the assessments as ran out of time. So the unanswered questions that he hadn't got to pulled his total score down, even though all the questions he did answer were correct.

This matters for exams though. It doesn't matter if you "know everything". If you can't communicate that onto paper within the time frame, then you've got a problem. Is he generally quite slow at things like reading and writing? Did he tell you wasn't managing to finish exams/work in class in time?

None of my children chose the pathway the school allocated. They can't impose it at all. Just say no. In our case it was the standard ebacc and mine did not want to include a language. So we didn't select a language. Loads didn't. They do not have any right to "put" him on this pathway, they can only suggest it. Tell them in writing what you and he want his gcses to be. It doesn't sound right that you have not been told anything previously. Just be aware that he'll be at a disadvantage if he doesn't get 4 or higher in Maths and English. So think rationally about their suggestion. But if you don't want it you don't have to have it. I'm a secondary school governor.