GCSE reduced subjects advice needed

[Arizona29]

I started a different thread about this yesterday but am starting a new one here because I've got a new question and I know many readers never read OP updates on a thread!
DS year 9 had been put onto a GCSE pathway for additional support.
He has no SEN diagnosed.
He has never had any intervention classes at school.
School have never made me aware at any point since year 7 that they feel DS needs additional support.
I have not received any communication whatsoever about him being put on to an additional support GCSE pathway. It has been like a bolt out of the blue and I only found out on Monday.
Parents evening last week made no mention of it.
So I spoke to a member of staff about it today.
It is not a mistake, as suggested by posters on my other thread.
The member of staff has told me the following:
That DS has been put on a pathway for year 10 & 11 where he will study
Maths
English
Science
1 humanity OR 1 language (his choice but only 1 of these)
2 practical based subjects of his choice such as DT, art, music, cookery, dance, photography, etc.
3 extra Maths intervention sessions a fortnight
3 extra English intervention sessions a fortnight
He cannot choose 2 humanities.
He cannot choose 1 humanity & 1 language.
He cannot choose 2 humanities & 1 language.
it is 1 humanity only.
He is only 1 of 16 students who has been put on this pathway out of the whole of year 9.
The 'standard' Ebacc pathway is
English, maths, science, 1 humanity, 1 language, then 2 further options which can include a second humanity, even a third one, but DS had not been given this pathway as an option.
I was confused when I posted on my other thread yesterday, and I remain confused.
I still don't understand how DS has been put on this additional support pathway with no communication whatsoever about any learning delay or concerns whatsoever from school in the 2.5 years he's been there.
I asked this question directly today, and it wasn't answered. It was glossed over.
DS is really upset.
A. He doesn't want to do only 1 humanity and no language. He feels he's had all his choices removed from him.
B. He says nobody at school has talked to him about this.
C. He feels excluded from the standard pathway that all his friends are doing.
D. He is asking me do his school think he's stupid and incapable
E. He fears stigma about this amongst his peers, and feels he is going to get comments and 'jokes' about not being able to do what everyone else is doing.
He has never had a conversation with, or any input from, the SenCo.
I have never had a conversation with the SenCo about DS.
The SenCo has never contacted me about DS to discuss him.
Again, he has no SEN.
So.
My questions to people here who have knowledge and experience:

1. What the hell is going on here?
2. Can they enforce this? Does DS have any choice or any say in the matter??
3. What right do school have to remove his choice to do 2 humanities, or 1 humanity + 1 language? Without any prior conversation with him or with me?
4. AIBU to feel they are 'dumbing down' his options?
5. Why does DS have to choose 2 options from a list of practical subjects? This isn't the pathway he wants to follow - cookery, or DT, or dance, or drama, etc. But he's now got to pick 2 of these subjects.

The list of the 2 extra choices on the standard Ebacc pathway contains additional academic choices.
Whereas the list of 2 extra choices on the additional support pathway DS has been placed on contains no academic choice whatsoever.
If he only does Maths, English, Science + 1 humanity, plus 2 practical non academic subjects, is this going to exclude him from doing A levels and a degree??
DS most definitely wants a career that will require A levels and degree. Will this additional needs pathway block him from going on to do A levels & degree because he won't have enough GCSE subjects?
DS is an intelligent boy. I can't believe the school are restricting his GCSE choices like this and putting him on this pathway, having never once put him into any additional intervention measures since starting in year 7.
His year 9 assessment scores were all below the year group average. Not way below. But they were below. His results do not reflect his intelligence or capability. He said he knew all the answers but didn't get to complete the assessments as ran out of time. So the unanswered questions that he hadn't got to pulled his total score down, even though all the questions he did answer were correct.
Basically I feel like I've got an intelligent boy who hasn't performed well in the year 9 assessments and as a result has been placed on an intervention GCSE pathway that enforces a reduced number of GCSEs and being forced to take 2 practical subjects instead, yet with no consent from or discussion with DS or myself about this.
I have tried really hard to speak to the SenCo since Monday when I found this out, but I am not receiving any replies to the emails I have sent her requesting for her to contact me to discuss this. I've been told this has all been based on her recommendation, yet she's never even had a conversation with me or with DS.
I am really worried aboug the impact this will have on DS's options, choices, future success and I'm worried about this affecting his self esteem.
Only 16 kids out of an entire huge year 9 cohort have been assessed as unable to do the Ebacc route and my intelligent DS is one of them? He's in the bottom 10% of kids who isn't allowed to do the standard Ebacc pathway that the other 90% of kids are following and yet he has no SEN and has never been given additional interventions at school and who is really bright?
From what I know of his blunt and highly insensitive and never-endingly mocking peers, he is not wrong when he says he is going to get put downs and negative comments from peers about this.
He has such hopes for his future career and these restricted and limited GCSEs are going to block that, because his career hopes require A levels & degree.
Help😞

Definitely.

Even at my DD’s academically selective independent school, you’d get in with those GCSE’s.

8 GCSE’s is completely normal in state education.

The main criteria to progress to A-Level, which is school dependent, is an average grade of a certain level across all GCSE’s taken then a specific grade in your chosen A-Levels.

E.g. An average grade of 6 across all GCSE’s. Then a minimum of a grade 7 in maths if you want to do maths A-level etc.

This is why, in my opinion, I’d be focusing on him getting as high grades as possible, as opposed to worrying about whether he does 2 humanities or a language or not.

Also, those creative subjects can be very tricky and often have a lot of science in them. PE and DT are very science based and quite academic. They are not looked down on as “easy” GCSE’s by any means.

One of our local colleges is a top performing sixth form

General A level admission there is 5 x grade 4 including Maths and English or equivalent btech etc.

Then subject specific passes at Grade 6 or 7 (depending on the child and the subject.)

Unis generally look for a minimum UCAS point score, with some courses looking for them to come from specific A-Levels. They may well look for a 5 in English GCSE as well

The EBaac is not hugely relevant anywhere.

Some questions:

When you say science - which GCSE path? Single, combined (worth 2 GCSE's) or triple (worth 3)?

Does he have a pathway in mind - i.e. an idea of what he wants to do? If he does, start by looking up what he needs to achieve that. Medicine, for example, has very high, very specific requirements.

What's the school's results like? Do they normally achieve above averages?

Have you read any of his recent school work? If not, try to. In particular look for inconsistent handwriting, incorrect or missing fundamentals in structure or punctuation, spelling issues, missed words such as 'and' 'the' 'of' and sentence structures that don't make sense.

How much does he read outside of school? How much and how often does he discuss topics with you? How fast does he process change and new information? What's his memory like?

It may be that there's something else going on that he's been able to compensate for till now or he may just be an 'able talker' - some children are strong early speakers, confident and personable and it can create a false impression of their academic potential.

Whatver else, though, his Maths and English grades are critical. Without the 4s in those, he very likely won't be eligible for Level 3 courses in year 12 and will have to resit alongside whatever else he does.

If school think this is a possibility for whatever reason - and it sounds like their may be reason for them to - then they're doing the right thing by freeing space for intervention.

I think you are being a little disingenuous op! You say you were completely unaware he was struggling, so why did you think he was moved into bottom set maths??
This decision will not have been based on just one assessment, his teachers will have been being informally assessing the students throughout every school year, and it seems clear that he is now falling behind. The school are much better placed to determine what is the best pathway for him than you are.
You need to step up yo the plate and parent the child you have got standing in front of you, not the child you would like to have. It is crucially important that he gets his maths and English! Feeling embarrassed is not a valid reason to set him up to fail

And it's very expensive to take matters into your own hands. Private tuition or assistance is unaffordable for most people.

School won’t be only assessing once a year. IME they test in class regularly so there will be a bunch of scores that ds has achieved over his secondary school years. He might not know how they compare with his peers but there may be more hints to his academic attainment like the bottom set maths thing.

As an aside, A-levels aren’t the only gateway to uni. Pupils who get grade 5/6 at GCSE often study level 3 BTECs which are treated like A-levels for uni entry purposes. A-levels are often aimed at pupils who achieve 6 or 7+.

Have you flicked through his school books? Not all of my kids discussed tests and test scores with me so this was a way to start a conversation about school work. It might give you an idea if he’s struggling in English/essay subjects and needs support.

A pp may have mentioned that schools sometimes make mistakes when pupil names are similar. I’d check that wasn’t the case here and that “Harry Wilson” hasn’t received “Harry Ward”’s letter.

Knowing the answers but not having enough time to write answers is something more concrete to look into. If his processing is slow then extra time could help him demonstrate his knowledge better.

You know your son best but do you think he studies and prepares for tests? Not all kids do but this might be a sign to start taking things seriously so that he gets his pass in GCSE English and maths which will keep future doors open. He doesn’t need the Ebacc to go to uni so I’d be simplifying his workload and avoiding 2 humanities and the language - one humanity will get him to the next stage without any issue plus history in particular is a lot of content.

Can I ask what he got in his KS2 SATS?

Tell them you are not submitting the form until you’ve had a proper meeting at the school. They might say it cannot be changed but yes it can, but I wouldn’t submit it until you’re satisfied that this pathway is the right choice and have spoken to SEN re any other testing he needs. I wouldn’t be satisfied at all from the limited comms you’ve had.

No, you can have any combination of GCSEs for A-levels. I didn’t do History or Geography and I went to Oxford!

If your DS is in bottom set for maths, then I’m surprised that you’re disconcerted by this offer, which sounds really supportive. I’m confused though as to why school think two practical subjects is somehow a soft option (it’s not).

if this is all true and you have not been made aware do you know what I’d do? I’d take the day off work and drive to school, go in to Reception 20 mins before break and ask to speak to Head of Year. If HoY not available say you’d like to speak to Head Teacher and yes you are happy to wait. I would tell them, I’ll sit here annd wait all day if I have to.

Take a book to read while you wait.

It sounds like communication has been very poor. One issue is that school reports are very vague and parents are rarely sent any concrete data. There is also very little money for proper SEND assessments and support, so schools often don't flag up suspected SEND because they can't put anything in place to help. This is especially the case with well behaved children.

The resources tend to be focused on the GCSE students as schools are judged on GCSE results. This is why he has been put on this pathway now because the school have focused their funding on this age group.

It is very likely he has taken some kind of standardised attainment test to predict his GCSE results. This will probably have been taken in Yr7 and will have been a computerised test. In some schools the scores from this will be used for target setting and if he was meeting those targets nothing would have been flagged up to you.

You definitely need a meeting. The head of year is probably the best person to contact as they will have more knowledge about your child than the SENCo. The SENCo won't know anything about him if he hasn't been flagged up for SEND.

If you are worried about the options form deadline, let the school know that you can't fill out the options form until you have had a meeting and have a clearer picture of the situation.

OP this is a shock and it’s poor communication from school to just dump this on you at the last minute. You do need an explanation from school before you submit his form and if they are not responding to e mails, I wouldn’t return the form until they’ve discussed this with you. What are they actually going to DO if his form isn’t submitted in time?

If it’s any comfort, DS is now in Y12, when he was in Y9 his (selective, private) school told us he should only take 8 with ‘study skills’ as an additional option. This was basically extra support for maths and English. We disagreed and pushed ahead with Spanish instead. He got a 4 in his Y10 Spanish end of year exam, so dropped it and joined study skills. At GCSE, he got 9 in PE, 8’s in maths, science and 2 x English and 7’s in history and classics. He’s now on track for A’s at A Level in history, classics & politics. So his options weren’t that dissimilar to what your DS has been offered and he’s absolutely thriving. He would never have got 8’s in maths/science/english without the slightly reduced timetable and the extra support from school. Try not to panic - but do let school know you won’t be returning his form until you’ve had a conversation with them.

Thing is that if he's working well according to the teachers, but underachieving in comparison to the rest of the year there's something going on.

But also if he says he knows all the answers but didn't finish, but also scored below the average then even with extra time he's not going to be achieving top grades. And child saying they knew all the answers and the reality can be a different thing. Have you seen his papers? Was he getting 90+% on what he did do? ( which may well have been the easier half of the paper)

By looking at what help is available - and it sounds like in maths at any rate he needs it, he will be far more likely to reach his potential whether that's A-levels and degree or another route.

Rather than going in objecting to their suggestion, you need to find out how they are looking to help him. Working with them is far more likely to result in good grades.

Imo this is one of the problems in modern culture where schools tend to go for "meeting their targets" ( which can be individual ones) and "doing very well" with no idea given to parents -or pupils often, how this may translate into real exam terms. You're not the first person who's had a shock in year 8/9 when GCSE grades start to be mentioned and they find that their DC, who they thought would be looking at 6-8 grades, are really looking to scrape a few 4-5s.

OP what were your sons SATS scores?

With the greatest of respect, he isn't incredibly intelligent if he's in the bottom set for maths. That's disingenuous at best. The schools communication has been poor and you need to work out if there are any additional learning needs, especially with him not finishing tests.

It’s very poor of the school that they didn’t contact you OP, they should have been involving you in the decision. Could his teachers maybe have thought you knew, hence not mentioning it at parents evening?

Having said that, I agree with other posters who are saying that him being below average in his test scores, not having adequate time to finish and bottom set for maths is an indicator that he does need the additional support and maybe doing fewer subjects is better. I’m going to be honest, a-levels are a bit of a step up from GSCEs and then a degree is a big jump from a-levels so getting a grounding now in good exam technique doing fewer subjects sounds very beneficial.

His year 9 assessment scores were all below the year group average. Not way below. But they were below. His results do not reflect his intelligence or capability. He said he knew all the answers but didn't get to complete the assessments as ran out of time. So the unanswered questions that he hadn't got to pulled his total score down, even though all the questions he did answer were correct

This is your problem. So either he read all the questions, wasting time not actually answering thus not having time to finish OR, he has some processing issues and didn't read ahead and has no real idea of whether he knew the answers. He may need an assessment for extra time. The school will take the view that the results do reflect his capability as it stands.

Look, the school want him to come out with the best set of results possible. The more GCSEs he acheives, the easier it will to move forwards. It can be tough to get maths and English at college/6th form if failed in Year 11. I would be grateful for any issues having been picked up and intervention put in place - many will never get that.

Bottom set for maths? Out of how many?

He can absolutely still so Alevel provided he gets the grades. 7 GCSEs is more than enough, I know lots of children doing A levels now with 7 GCSEs. Don’t worry that part will be ok.
Definitely go and talk to the head of year who will be able to explain their decision making progress.
I would get him assessed for dyslexia like you said in your last post, if possible get this done privately as it takes ages for schools to sort this out more often that not. Ask them for an Educational Psychologist referral as you are concerned about your child being an average attainer until now and want to unpick why this is happening. Anxiety can absolutely affect test performance and schools put these children under a lot of pressure.
If he has slipped since year 7 perhaps it’s something about this scbool? Anyway for now focus on getting a meeting with the school as it seems like they need to explain what has gone wrong. Take a note book and write everything they say down. Schools do get things wrong and this could have happened. Or your son could be struggling to keep up with his prior attainment and you need to know why.
goodluck I hope they see you soon.

How could anyone answer those questions? We don’t know what is going on. Only the school can answer these questions. If I were you I’d focus less on the “not been told” points (although valid) and more on how they know there is an issue and how best to ensure he can achieve his best possible outcome.

He has reduced options because they’re giving extra maths and English intervention. They’ve made the assessment that he could fail his core subjects which is worse that not having a higher number of GCSEs

why is he not finishing? He may be smart but if he is unable to time manage and get through the exam when the rest of his peers are then it’s an issue. What have beeen the reports in parents evening over the years?

what records of grades has he gotten since year 7? Has there been no reporting of his grades or progress in the past 3 years?

have you not seen any of his homework marking or work when he comes home?

Also my friends son was moved into bottom maths set and got a 7(A) so don’t panic. Sounds like there is a lot to unpick but he can still be “bright” and be in bottom maths set. It happens! He could have all sorts of things that are making it hard to learn which he needs support with, that does not mean he’s not bright or intelligent as some people are suggesting.

So for a levels it varies between colleges/schools.

however you definitely do not need to do the full ebacc to get on a levels.

my son really struggled with English. He dropped two slots at gcse to do extra study support.

passed by the skin of his teeth and went on to do a levels in maths, bio and chem.

in general to do a levels you need to pass maths and English (although some sixth forms will let you resit one if you failed) plus have 5 GCSE’s at 5 or above.

some sixth forms are quite competitive to get into and ask for more than this but this is generally the offer.

what a levels does he want to do? Obviously if he wants to do German Spanish and French the lack of languages is a problem. However if he wants to do English history and psychology (for example) this is achievable with the current pathway.

This.

Our school always put predicted grades on school reports ( from year 7), does yours not do this. I could tell based on those that my eldest was going to be pathway 2 and that my youngest would be doing Ebacc. I am a bit surprised that you thought dc would be doing Ebacc when bottom set maths. I think that was a good indicator that he'd be on a different pathway.
I'd arrange a meeting with the head of year though to talk through it.

To answer your last question @Arizona29 yes for sure you can do A levels with those GCSEs as a number of posters have already said.

There is no need to have two humanities and a language to do A levels. Most DC don’t even take two humanities.

Grades are what us important (min grade 6 in chosen subjects as a rule or if taking new subjects, a 6 in a similar subject). As I posted before, he needs to be sure he is taking any subjects he wants to continue with. That might need to be your focus, if he for example wants to do French and geog at A level?

What A levels does he want to do? You mention plans for uni - does he have a subject he wants to study there? What is it?

I like others think the reduced timetable is probably a good thing for him, but would be concerned about the insistence on two creatives he doesn’t want to do. Art GCSE is only for enthusiasts and not easy, so that would be my angle with the school.

The school will definitely want the percentage of pupils getting a ‘pass’ grade in English and maths to be high, for their own reputation and position in league tables. Also, your son needs a pass grade in these subjects too. At the moment, when decisions are made, based on your own information, he needs to be in the bottom set for maths. It’s in his best interest to have extra maths and English support. Their decision is not closing options for him. They are ensuring his success. And theirs.

Please don’t do this, HoY might have a full teaching day and meetings with parents who’ve been waiting their turn. Schools are not a service industry, time is highly structured and breaks are usually filled with duty rotations/phone calls to parents/paperwork/emergency situations (all to benefit children, I might add. I don’t think parents understand that our staff room is usually empty at break and lunch).

Arrange a meeting by all means.