Why can't women be charged with rape?

[Ourlovelyson]

My son attempted to take his life last year. Turns out his partner has been abusive and she was drugging him with Viagra being him aroused and sitting on top of him he kept telling her no but she did what she wanted to do. But rape is defined by the penetrating male, my son is not the person he once was.
I have been on Google for weeks and I can't find anything to help him. He obviously isn't the only one.
Why is this?

No, I don't believe you in the slightest, but that's fine.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think so? I'm sure I've read that aiding a man in the commission of rape can result a woman in being convicted of rape. (Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone!)

There is a sort of joint enterprise thing where women can be charged with rape.

You dont have to believe me. I think the fact you would even think it an appropriate line of argument is pretty disgusting regardless of your sex.

Well, the feeling is mutual!

How terrible for your poor son.

As others have said, sexual assault carries the same sentence as rape; rape is just a particular type of sexual assault with a specific meaning.

It's like someone being charged with a theft offence and someone querying why they're 'only' being charged with theft and not fraud (despite them both ultimately being about depriving someone of something unlawfully).

It's not a value judgement, with only the worst offences being termed 'fraud', it's just that fraud is a specfic word meaning that you've gone about depriving someone of something in a particular way, with slightly different legall elements that need to be proven compared to the offence of theft.

My heart goes out to your son and I hope he's managed to access some professional support.

Yes, this would be under joint enterprise. You'd need a man to commit the rape on Woman A as the 'principal' offender but Woman B could be charged with that same rape (that was actually physically carried out by a man) if she was also considered legally culpable for it being done.

This may be of general interest but of course it doesn't apply to the perpetrator of the OP's son https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/secondary-liability-charging-decisions-principals-and-accessories

A proven incel? Evidence of a history of hatred against women doesn’t prove they haven’t engaged in sexual activity with women, nor does it prove no homosexual activity has occurred. It also wouldn’t help in cases where a man causes another man to forcibly penetrate him. I’d gladly throw in a history of misogyny as an aggravating factor to balance it out though so I don’t think it gets you where you want in any event. Might be a good way to finally get hatred of women recognised as a hate crime.

I’d be more than happy with a further crime of sexual assault by forced penetration (it would apply to fingers etc too) to ensure that male victims like Op’s son can have some guarantee of a longer sentence for their attackers, but I’m inclined to agree with others that being penetrated and penetrating are not the same. Both incredibly violating and worth of harsh sentences, but they are fundamentally different crimes and should be recognised as such (with no suggestion that the latter should have some sort of shorter sentence). I don’t tend to view rape as “sex without consent” though which is perhaps where the disconnect is. It’s too easily to legitimise. I view it as an attack whether something sexual is done to the victim’s body without their consent, which is why the differentiation matters.

I am so very sorry about this. Its so cruel and I understand your viewpoint
I am glad to hear that jail time for SA can be the same
I suppose the only comment to make is that a woman could obviously be assaulted not by use of a penis, so I guess its still equal
But horrible
So sorry again

Age and lifestyle are not proof of virginity.

judges make shitty comments sometimes, but we are talking about what the law should look like. What is the problem with stating rape can only be done with a penis? Who does this harm?

Many women don't get justice either as many of us here know
The first step is reporting- that takes strength and he's done that.

I hope you get the right outcome for your son- he has suffered a serious sexual assault and coercive control. This woman deserves to be punished.
It can be a long and arduous process, OP. He'll need you more than ever.

Please encourage him to seek counselling - there are some excellent specialist services out there.

Are you people quite alright? This is a thread about a parent finding out their child is a victim of sexual assault and it’s being sidetracked by posts detailing descriptions of sexual assault and debating which is worse and why. Get a grip, start another thread, Jesus.

Where did you get this idea from?

https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/administering-a-substance-with-intent/

People who are forced to sex in other ways

Of course it can be. If someone is a proven incel, which you could establish through their online activity, and especially if that forms part of the case, then their risk of transmitting an STD would be minimal. So by your reckoning, this would be a less serious rape.

Why would you need to legally separate them other than to give a different type (read:lesser) of sentence? That is why they distinguish between them.

It doesnt carry the same sentence unless you are penetrated.

This offence is covered by the specific sexual offence of assault by penetration - which can be committed by a man or woman. It carries the same sentence as rape.

How does it harm them?

Nobody is suggesting that they are not victims of sexual assualt

But they are not victims lf rape. And it’s not up to rape victims to have the seriousness of their experience downplayed for people who’ve had a completely different experience

This is the material thing - we can protect the word rape as being something that’s done with a penis but also punish sexual assault by penetration crimes in the same way

The average sentence for assault by pen. Is roughly half of the average sentence for rape.

Because unless they were penetrated, the perpetrator is not subject to the same max term as they are for rape.

But we dont.

If you use a strap on etc it’s assault by penetration which carries exactly the same penalties.

It is just as serious but it’s right that it’s a distinct offence.