DD’s new employer taking advantage

[hamsalads5]

DD18, who will soon turn 19, has just finished working at the local nursery. She was planning to get her qualifications and then search for a nanny job (better pay and opportunities). Nanny positions aren’t too common around here, so she was considering moving, ideally to London where there are more opportunities. We also have family there. However, a local family reached out to her, looking for someone to care for their 3 kids.

She’s done a few trial sessions with them, spent some time with the kids, and they want her to stay on permanently. There are a few red flags that worry me though.

First off, they want her to be self employed. From what I understand, she can’t be self employed unless she sets her own hours, pay, holidays, etc, which isn’t the case here. They want her on specific days and have already decided her pay. It feels like they’re trying to dodge their responsibilities as employers, like paying national insurance and pension contributions. Secondly, they’ve mentioned an hourly rate of £16, but DD will have to cover any activity costs herself. With 3 kids, that could really add up. A trip to the zoo could easily cost £70-£80?! Plus, DD won’t have a clear idea of her monthly earnings since it’ll depend on how many activities they do. How is anyone supposed to live like that? Shouldn’t expenses be separate and not included in the hourly rate?

I know that she’s an adult and needs to handle this on her own. Ultimately, it’s her choice whether to continue, but this couple is in their 40s and clearly knows what they’re doing, taking advantage of a young and inexperienced woman, in my opinion. AIBU?

You are right to raise this with her. It’s dodgy. Why would your daughter pay to take the children to the zoo? FFS.

surely this is a joke asking the nanny to cover costs of activities out of her own pocket if true I can’t believe why your even asking if she should take the job

Nope.

expenses are separate.

She is definitely not self-employed. They are trying to dodge payment of PAYE & NIC. Have a look at HMRC website, as there will be info on there.

She needs to turn this down. They are piss takers

I'm not an expert but she should be an employee, not a self employed contractor/worker. If she sets herself up as a company HMRC might see this as tax avoidance.

She needs some advice. ACAS maybe. Also can she look on e.g. Linkedin or Glassdoor, or any specialist nannying forums, for any experienced nannies who'd be willing to speak to her?

Absolutely no, she needs to turn it down.

Tell her not to entertain this and find another family. She should not have to pay activities out of her own wage

That seems like a very low rop to look after 3 kids.
Not a hope in hell would I let her pay for the kids activities if they were my dcs.
Re the lack of proper contract ,NI / sick pay , nope I wouldn't like that one bit unless she is truly self employed, and unless she is exceptionally good with figures and is knows about all the related implications I'd tell her not to touch the job with a barge pole

She should run a mile.

She shouldn’t be paying for activities, nor should she be self employed in the situation you’ve described.

Thats also a low rate to be responsible for 3 DC!

Yes, they are being ridiculous. She isn’t self employed.
No nanny covers the costs of activities from their own wages.
Are are behaving in an illegal and exploitative way.

According to DD, they attempted to phrase it as, "we're offering you a great wage, so it's reasonable for you to cover activities." The minimum wage for an 18 year old is £10 an hour, so £16 is good, but typically, nannies earn more than the minimum wage, right? I feel like the way they've phrased it has made me question whether we're being unreasonable!

Yes, they are taking advantage of her, not only about the paying for activities but being self employed . You really have to wonder at people who are prepared to possibly put their young children at risk by employing a very young, untrained teenager as cheaply as they can. I am sure your dd is delightful OP, but does she have first aid qualifications, does she for example know how to deal with choking, or scalding accidents. I think she needs to turn this one down.

A quick Google shows the average range as £16-18 ph outside of London. So I wouldn't describe it as a great wage, just a normal one. Lower end of normal even. But it definitely shouldn't include activities. I mean, she can just say fine she will only take them to free activities within walking distance, but I'm sure they don't want that...

I worked as a nanny. I was employed and my boss paid my tax, NI and holiday and sick pay. These people sound like they're trying to get out of doing that.
Any activity, or anything that I bought for the children was paid for by the parents. They also gave me petrol money if I took them out in the car.

£16ph for three kids! That’s £5.33 per child so no it’s not a great wage.
it’s also ridiculous that they would expect her to cover the costs of activities….the are being mega CF’s!
I would gently try and persuade her this is not a good idea because I have a feeling they would not be good employers and would start asking her to stay a few mins late here and there, extra duties would creep in and it would just be a headache.

I worked as a nanny for nearly 20 years. She can not be self employed in the position that you've described. It's simply not possible. The family are clearly trying to get around their obligations as employers, which are many.

Whilst, yes, your daughter is an adult, there are plenty of times parents should step in and advise. One of those times is when you see your child being taken advantage of. This is definitely the case here. There is no way your daughter should be paying for activities for the children. That simply is unacceptable. Expenses are always separate and when I was nannying we had a "nanny purse" with petty cash for weekly groups (toddler groups and so on) and then any bigger activities were agreed in advance and paid for by the parents or booked by myself with a transfer of funds in advance by the parents.

I agree, this doesnt sound good.

Id be dubious about parents who try to short-change their children’s childcare providers. They might end up being an unpleasant family to spend time with.

It’s hard when your daughter is young and keen to embark on her career. Shame on them for trying to take advantage.

but DD will have to cover any activity costs herself hilarious

No
Of course she can go to park for free and take snacks.
If they want their kids to go.to.the zoo soft play or balletclass they pay of course

She should chat to nannnypaye or nannytax companies for advice

She wouldn’t be a real nanny then, she would be a glorified babysitter. Nannies are employed and either set their own rates or agree on it with the parents. Nannies are registered with Ofsted, need first aid training and enhanced DBS (she might have this from nursery), ongoing costs like insurance etc. which all need to be factored into the wage. I would suggest that she registers with an agency as that will help her avoid chancers and dodgy parents

They sound like assholes. She should stay far, far away from them.

They are ripping the piss out of your DD.
I'm surprised she didnt burst out laughing at them. I hope she told them were to get off

They won't improve over time, they will always be pisstakers. I'd just decline the role.

You are right to be worried and I wouldn't expect working for them to be pleasant if they are trying to take advantage of her before even starting work. She needs to be on a payroll and I used to leave a cash kitty for activities and expenses.
I imagine she would enjoy relocating to London a lot more and finding a family with just one or two children would be easier for her too.