To think Lucy Letby could’ve done more to help herself if she really wasn’t guilty?

[Seymorbutts]

Just watched the new Lucy Letby documentary on Netflix. I think there’s one of C4 too, don’t know if it’s the same one? I’m leaning slightly more towards that she did it, but only about 60% sure she did it. 40% sure she didn’t do it. On this doc there’s a lot of footage of all her arrests and police interviews. What strikes me as odd IF she’s innocent, is how little she protests her innocence, how calm & composed she is. It’s the same during her arrests. I understand she must’ve been in shock when she was arrested so that could explain it. But she was interviewed for hours. Not once did she say “I didn’t do this” (unless directly asked, which she just answered with “no”) “I’m innocent”, “I could never kill a baby”. Nothing like that. Very little crying too. I know she’s supposedly very quiet and reserved and I’m sure was very scared, but I don’t think personality can account for a total lack of defending herself (or maybe she was just following the advice given by her lawyer). But still, if it was me I’d be absolutely raging, and protesting my innocence at every opportunity and giving clear, detailed reasons why I couldn’t have done it when they put it to me that I did. Or maybe she did do it and she’s a psychopath and unable to show remorse, which could explain her lack of any kind of emotion at all 🤷‍♀️ I really don’t know. If she is innocent though, I feel like the way she behaved made her look guilty. Interested to hear if people think she did it or not and why/why not…

Ridiculous comment.

a) some salient facts were not available at the trial e.g. the fact that the Lee and Tanswell paper has no relevance to IV air embolism, so any mention of rashes in the context of these cases is irrelevant; the third anomalous insulin/c peptide result for a baby with congenital hyperinsulinism.

b) many, many people with relevant qualifications and experience have pored over court transcripts and medical evidence so have all of the information that was available to the jury, and have come to the conclusion that there were no murders or deliberate harms

But people who sat through the trial and read about it at the time did have doubts. Some of those people actually contacted the court with their concerns and were told to shut up or be in contempt. You know this because you are on literally every single thread on the topic.

In the same way that you know that there was evidence that was withheld from the jury, and that it is now clear that there are equally plausible explanations for the deaths when they were told the only possible explanation was deliberate harm. You know that both Evans and Jayaram lied under oath.

You simply repeat the same mantra over and over again on every single thread and refuse to engage with any facts which don’t support your fixation.

I’ve gone from thinking she’s guilty after hearing all the trial evidence to thinking that she’s not guilty,

It sounds like evidence was chosen to support the prosecution’s case so it wasn’t a fair trial. Cases where she wasn’t present were left out.

I’ve never seen the notes as an indication of guilt; to me it is clear that she was just writing everything that people had been saying about her. These aren’t notes written before they suspected her, they were written after she was accused and had had these accusations aimed at her, so they were going around in her head. She was replaying it all and wondering if it was something she’d done because she wasn’t good enough.

I don’t see taking the notes home as an indication of guilt either; it sounds like she got into a habit of taking them home because she didn’t know what to do with them and once she’d taken a few home she probably didn’t want to admit it to anyone by asking what she should do. I’ve read other nurses say they’ve done the same. She didn’t just keep the ones from the babies who died. I don’t see the shredder thing as evidence either; we don’t know the relationship between her and the person who owned the shredder, and she might have been worried about telling them what she wanted to use it for. She might have been worried about destroying them in case someone at work wanted to know where they were.

Re Facebook searches: lots of nurses, teachers on here (in other discussions) have said that they’ve searched for patients, parents etc.

I don’t see her reactions as evidence of guilt either - she’d had years of being accused and we have just seen a small snippet.

You simply repeat the same mantra over and over again on every single thread and refuse to engage with any facts which don’t support your fixation

I envy the patience of those who keep on answering but I think it encourages FF to continue, when challenged FF will either ignore or seems to go quiet for a day or so and then re-emerge with the same arguments which have already been addressed, often resorting to little personal digs about people. FF does not have to agree with answers given but repeatedly making the same, addressed, points is tiresome in the extreme.

This is why I think we need a post that addresses the arguments one by one with alternative explanations

• Insulin - wrong test used/ another child had similar results and....
• Post it notes - used to explore inner thoughts as evidenced by....
• Air embolism - refuted by... As you can see I am not the person to write this but it may help FF.and people who helpfully post " guilty as charged- she's evil" without exploring critical thinking or being aware of new explanations. A PP absolutely nailed it.. this really is too much like a witch hunt for my liking Guilty for not protesting her innocence loudly enough ( in the heavily edited clips we saw), being female, being at work when some of the deaths happened and also managing to cause other deaths on her day off , loving her cat..I mean no one has suggested it's a familiar yet but there's time.... Anyone up for the challenge?

It's a big task but surely less time consuming than repeating the same arguments ( to the same poster!)
I'll have a think today

Tbh I think the people (person) who have fixated on guilt and are refusing to accept that any more information has come out post trial are just going to continue to ignore the information no matter how it’s presented. It’s not like all this stuff hasn’t been explained over and over again.

It’s been explained, linked to, explained again. Patient questions have been asked about how those posters interpret this report or those findings and they just ignore or give some silly responses or ad hominem attacks. It’s honestly impossible for me to accept they hold the views they claim or are expressing them in good faith. But I understand the reasoning behind the patient responses for the benefit of those new to the case. It’s still irritating to have thread after thread filled up with their crap, which is mostly the point of the posts I assume.

My guess would be that they are part of an anti Letby echo chamber elsewhere where they just spend their time going round in circles agreeing how guilty she is and how thick/gullible/evil anyone who thinks there might be a miscarriage of justice is. And part of that is making regular forays onto places like Mumsnet where the stream of emerging evidence is discussed, so it kind of has more to do with the poster’s own needs than with either the content or what effect has on the rest of the thread. If they stopped and thought it would be obvious that they are fighting a losing battle.
That’s just a theory anyway. I find the psychology of people who are absolutely wedded to ignoring evidence very weird.

I guess you are all right
I am assuming people post in good faith rather than trying to wind people up...I did wonder how narrow minded someone must be to not at least be curious to consider another point of view. I have absolutely no skin in the game re guilt or innocence in this particular case but I am concerned that the threshold of " beyond reasonable doubt" has not been met particularly as I don't believe that it is absolutely certain that murders took place. I am no apologist for criminals and am often bemused and angered at the low sentences that criminals receive ( in particular for violence and sexual assault) .. however professionals with much more education, experience and knowledge than me , with no discernable benefits to themselves, have also expressed their concern that justice hasn't been done.
I can only hope for all of us that the case is looked at again to quash those doubts. If LL is guilty then prison is where she should stay. If not, then she needs to be freed, compensated and the real reason behind the deaths identified and addressed so that it can't happen again. My worry is that the latter would be hugely costly in terms of money, loss of face and reputation and confidence in the NHS. I hope that this would have no bearing on the investigation but.....

Nobody actually knows how they would react.

And just because they think they know how they would, it doesn't mean everyone else would react the same way.

We see this again and again with people convicted of crimes subsequently proven innocent.

And we see it again and again with victims of crime i.e their loved one is missing or murdered and the public are sure they had something to do with it because 'you wouldn't act that way'.

Nicola Bulley was a recent example. SM including MN was awash with armchair detectives and armchair body language analysts posting about her husband and friends acting strangely, 'you wouldn't wear that on TV if your wife/friend was missing, you wouldn't go on TV at all or if you did you'd say this not that, you'd cry or you wouldn't cry that much'. All the time she'd drowned and her body just hadn't been found.

There's a recent Netflix documentary about Elizabeth Smart and how the public analysed her family members behaviour and were sure they had killed her. While all the time she had been kidnapped and raped daily by a delusional Religious fanatic.

All these crime TV/podcasts don't help.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2026/feb/13/uk-mother-separated-from-children-draconian-order-overturned-melanie-gill

With regards to the conduct and regulation of expert witnesses, this is interesting.

I realise it's a completely different sort of case, but it does highlight the damage that can be done within the legal system to real people, including children.

I really do think that in complex cases independent oversight is needed as a matter of urgency.

Thanks for posting this. The longer article linked from the Guardian is horrifying, and very moving too

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2026-02-13/family-courts-gill-vindicated

The expert in question advised that other investigations planned, into physical and sexual abuse, wouldn't be necessary, because they wouldn't change her report. That's exactly the approach Dewi Evans took, advising police not to contact the range of experts, including an obstetrician, that the CPS had advised.

That certainly seems likely from the other threads and the tendency to ignore challenges which dont fit into the same few refutations or where a personal dig cant be introduced.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/health/other/expert-who-helped-convict-lucy-letby-misdiagnosed-boy-s-brain-tumour-as-bulimia/ar-AA1WmJuM?apiversion=v2&domshim=1&noservercache=1&noservertelemetry=1&batchservertelemetry=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1

Just dropping this here.

Seems like Lucy Letby isn't the only one with alleged memory problems about past cases.

Could be the tip of an iceberg. Although the secrecy around family court proceedings might keep alot hidden.

No doubt in some peoples opinions ..

Lucy Letby forgets details from years ago "Baby murderer"
Dewi Evans forgets details years ago "Expert Witness"

Thank fuck Dewi Evans is retired.

What's ridiculous is thinking the NHS invented a literal serial killer-not only in the first place but to explain deaths that weren't even being questioned by management. You are aware this is real life not some sordid TV drama. Go watch the interviews with Dr Jayaram and Dr Brearey and tell me they're ACTING because they should get an Oscar for those performances.

The third anomalous insulin result was when she was again on shift! Anything you bring up that is outside the court case will only serve to make her look even more guilty.

many, many people with relevant qualifications and experience have pored over court transcripts and medical evidence so have all of the information that was available to the jury, and have come to the conclusion that there were no murders or deliberate harms

Yeah we know. Just because they say so doesn't make them right and having logic I can see all the circumstantial evidence pointing to LL whereas you are just taking the word of a few experts as gospel and ignoring the rest of the case because it doesn't suit your agenda. I don't mind being one of a few lone voices of reason on here tbh. The tables will turn once again and I'm not going to change my beliefs just to go along with what the herd thinks for 5 mins of history.

I'm just going to go and find a brick wall to bang my head against...

What do you mean when you say the managers weren't questioning the deaths?

I imagine it's very damning, otherwise he'd be shouting it from the roof tops that she's waived privilege, even if he can't say any more than that.

Lucy Letby came on shift after the third insulin baby had had his sample taken for testing. He was not on an IV bag at this point.

They weren't worried about the excess deaths were they? They weren't looking into why this was happening?

You mean before the unit was closed, I presume? But that's when the consultants really started to point the finger at Lucy Letby anyway. By then the managers were concerned - that's why they closed the intensive care unit.

Dr Brearey did express concerns at a meeting in April but he seemed happy to leave and monitor at that point, so I don't think anyone would call that scapegoating yet.

Go watch the interviews with Dr Jayaram and Dr Brearey and tell me they're ACTING because they should get an Oscar for those performances.

It’s funny you should say that because Dr Jayaram’s interview made my spidey senses prickle even when I was still assuming she was guilty, and then of course it did turn out that the evidence he had given contradicted his former email.