for thinking Christianity is declining in the UK because the churches lost credibility and community while other faiths didn’t?

[LoveWFH]

This is not about belief in God versus no God. It is about institutions and what people experience on the ground. The Church of England in particular feels like a faded bureaucracy. Empty buildings. Clergy stretched thin. Services that feel performative or stuck in a time capsule. A lot of talk about tradition but very little that speaks to how people actually live now.

There is also the trust issue. Abuse scandals. Cover ups. Financial mismanagement. A sense that when the church fails it protects itself first and the vulnerable last. You can only ask people to suspend disbelief for so long when the institution itself looks morally compromised. Younger people especially are ruthless about hypocrisy and the church gives them plenty to work with.

Then there is the class and culture gap. Christianity in the UK often feels tied to establishment power and respectability. It does not feel like it belongs to ordinary people anymore. It feels like something you inherit rather than choose. Something you tick at a wedding or funeral rather than something that shapes your life. When belief becomes purely ceremonial it is already on life support.

By contrast other faiths seem to be growing because they are lived not just referenced. They have visible daily practices. Clear moral frameworks. Strong community networks. You see them meeting regularly supporting each other showing up for births deaths crises celebrations. There is structure and discipline but also belonging. For migrants especially faith communities replace the support systems the state no longer provides.

There is also confidence. Other faiths are not embarrassed by themselves. They do not constantly apologise for existing or dilute their beliefs in the hope of being liked. People are drawn to certainty in an uncertain world. Not cruelty or dogma but clarity. Christianity in the UK often sounds unsure of what it even stands for anymore beyond being inoffensive.

So AIBU for thinking this is not some mystery about secularism but a very predictable outcome of an institution that lost its moral authority community roots and sense of purpose while others doubled down on theirs?

I don't see any point in comparing christianity with other religions. Christianity is not a religion, is it the only way to get to the Presence of God the Father, through Jesus, which means Heaven experience after death.

This just rude, dismissive and while a large amount of Christians insufferable.

Christianity is a religion and is one way to connect to a higher power.

I’m a Pentecostal Christian, the church is growing.

I'm sure some non believing people of Muslim background might at least attend family celebrations for some stuff. I know non believers of Hindu background who still observe the festivals. Non believing Jews celebrate also, as pp said.

I'm in NZ, which if anything is more anti religious than the UK. My observation is that while the numbers of people who identify as Christians is still declining the isn't an even spread: the Catholics and Pentecostal churches are holding up while the trad Protestant churches (traditionally the most dominant) are literally dying off. That makes for a lot of closed church buildings because they have a lot of them. While I see absolutely no prospect of Christianity regaining its former dominance I equally see absolutely no prospect of it disappearing either, or becoming more marginal, here at least. The decline among practicing Christians is at least slowing.

I am Christian and I do detect a change in the wind. It may be personal- Christianity increasingly seems to me has much more vitality in facing life's setbacks than the secular alternatives. But I have very mixed feelings about some of the louder Christian voices around at present.

My church is an evangelical, protestant church. We do a lot of local volunteering and our churches seem to be growing not declining. We run local food pantry's so people can get discounted shopping from local supermarkets (through donation), help people with language classes, benefits and getting back into employment (through christians against poverty). Our kids get to go away to summer camp (heavily subbed). We provide warm meals to the community on certain days and have groups during the week.
All leaders do safeguarding training because of scandal thats rocked through CofE and other religious groups. Its mandatory. Anyone who works with children must have an advanced DBS.

I don't think my church has lost it's credibility. Maybe you need to find a better one?

But they are of that religion. Where as non Christians will celebrate Christian festivals. For example there are many Muslim families I know who celebrate Christmas - in that there children get gifts and they do the whole father Christmas thing and therefore I don’t believe it’s seen as religious and it dilutes the religion as a whole. I attend church every week; our church is a busy church, we have a lot of people from African nations where the Christian faith is very much still everyone attends and wears Sunday best and they have Carried that forward with them as they have moved to the UK.

Wasn't Jesus a refugee? I'm pretty sure that helping the unfortunate was a key point of his teachings. Not that you'd know it from those preaching "prosperity gospel" in the US.

You wouldn't. Prosperity gospel is probably the biggest nailed-on heresy around right now. An absolutely bizarre idea.

But it's true that the C of E chases the zeitgeist too much. It looks like a lack of integrity.

Hmm, I think “the sinfulness of empathy” is probably even worse than the prosperity stuff. An absolute perversion.

You should read what she wrote. She doesn't believe Christianity to be a religion. She was arrogant and rude enough to dismiss all other faiths and claim her is the one true way. She can not prove this. I can however prove the innumerable horrific things the Christian church has done and continues to do.

I don't think my church has lost it's credibility. Maybe you need to find a better one?

I wasn't talking about individual churches.

I think this is a really good post. It reminded me of a film I recently watched called A Monster Calls. It's about a boy whose mother is dying of cancer. He is visited by a large, sentient tree who tells him stories, which are vaguely about the importance of self-belief. It's well acted and has good reviews.

I absolutely hated it. First, because of the overtones that truth lay in paganism, and that's the true spirituality of the UK (historically that's a bold claim) and there was a Christian priest who was bad. I'll admit I'm sensitive on this but it goes to your point about opinion-formers having a bash.

The better reason was the moral behind the film. It was all about being authentic. The boy, acting out, the mother in denial who wouldn't tell him what was happening, the icy, angry grandmother, the drip of a father who had a new family in the US. None of them had any idea how to conduct themselves, meaning chaos, and the film's moral was 'well, that's just life'. Well, that's fine for the good times. Christianity isn't nearly as limited. Someone said that Britain was still in a sense deeply Christian in its fundamentals. Maybe, but it's slowly moving away from that. Christianity is very much about self-denial and transformation, not living your own truth or self-expression.

How?

Agreed. This certainly rocked my faith.

Given what the current Hindu government and Hindus are doing to Muslims in India, I really wouldn't call Hinduism 'safer'.

But Muslims are caught between a rock and a hard place. They are often accused of not integrating, and yet when do try and adopt the customs of the land e.g. celebrate Christmas in small ways such as presents and a meal, they are questioned and, as you have just done, told they are diluting Christianity.

It didn't affect mine (there were abuse scandals elsewhere too) but I am white hot furious about what was done to victims and how it was enabled within the church and ignored and I don't know whether I will ever lose that anger.

I did have a very hard think about how Christian forgiveness was misused as an excuse for straight out cowardice.

And yet very few people, Christian or otherwise, want to welcome refugees/asylum seekers and migrants into their own homes. Always a list of excuses!

I agree with others that CofE lacks the 'rules' associated with other religions.
My belief in Jesus and his teaching is strong. I try to live my life by his teachings. But it is a struggle, personally and within the collective in my church. And that is the point. I am human and therefore flawed. I can aspire to be like Jesus, but will never get there.
It should be a struggle. It should push me to be a better person and do uncomforrable things that are against my nature. Take in a refugee. Talk to the homeless. Use less stuff. Etc etc.
An observance of a set of rules such as set prayer times, clothing, eating regulations, confession etc etc removes some of that struggle. "I obey the rules, therefore I am dandy."
Being a Christian is challenging. Historically people attended church to help them with that challenge. So they felt 'they were doing the right thing'.
But now people are not as interested in that challenge.
And yes the organised religion of Christianity is significantly flawed, over history and also now.

Well God sent a Plague that killed of the all the first born children in the Egyptian times so him sending a few rogue priests in the 20th century could have been much worse.

Re the 'blood on their hands' allegation : it's important as I said NOT to conflate Irish Catholicism with global Christianity...

Though abuse coverups seems to be a problem in both Protestant & Catholic churches in many countries...

I think we would find Jesus’s politics very alien to our modern sensibilities.

Quite plausibly: very pro-migrant, very pro social care, not that bothered by slavery, unclear what his general economic stance would be, but not necessarily an agitator for much political change. Very focused on personal mortality and virtures, our relationship with God and with one another. Probably uncompromising in his views on sexual morality though not a major focus of his time.

Almost certainly scathing about a lot of right wing and left wing moralists. Not a progressive, not a conservative. A radical on matters of the heart/spirit but possibly without much to say on the role of the state.

Just my guess. Views?