for thinking Christianity is declining in the UK because the churches lost credibility and community while other faiths didn’t?

[LoveWFH]

This is not about belief in God versus no God. It is about institutions and what people experience on the ground. The Church of England in particular feels like a faded bureaucracy. Empty buildings. Clergy stretched thin. Services that feel performative or stuck in a time capsule. A lot of talk about tradition but very little that speaks to how people actually live now.

There is also the trust issue. Abuse scandals. Cover ups. Financial mismanagement. A sense that when the church fails it protects itself first and the vulnerable last. You can only ask people to suspend disbelief for so long when the institution itself looks morally compromised. Younger people especially are ruthless about hypocrisy and the church gives them plenty to work with.

Then there is the class and culture gap. Christianity in the UK often feels tied to establishment power and respectability. It does not feel like it belongs to ordinary people anymore. It feels like something you inherit rather than choose. Something you tick at a wedding or funeral rather than something that shapes your life. When belief becomes purely ceremonial it is already on life support.

By contrast other faiths seem to be growing because they are lived not just referenced. They have visible daily practices. Clear moral frameworks. Strong community networks. You see them meeting regularly supporting each other showing up for births deaths crises celebrations. There is structure and discipline but also belonging. For migrants especially faith communities replace the support systems the state no longer provides.

There is also confidence. Other faiths are not embarrassed by themselves. They do not constantly apologise for existing or dilute their beliefs in the hope of being liked. People are drawn to certainty in an uncertain world. Not cruelty or dogma but clarity. Christianity in the UK often sounds unsure of what it even stands for anymore beyond being inoffensive.

So AIBU for thinking this is not some mystery about secularism but a very predictable outcome of an institution that lost its moral authority community roots and sense of purpose while others doubled down on theirs?

Theistic religions tend to decline as education levels rise as people question their validity.

Imho the growth in some evangelical branches of Christianity is down to targeting the vulnerable & disenfranchised and offering the community, support & acceptance they lack elsewhere.

Many vicars and lay people are snob ridden middle class introverts who don’t live the faith at all. Look at Welby. Bishops and the institutional hierarchy just recruit in their own image.

I think this is true. The disgraced ex-CEO of the Post Office being short listed to become a Bishop, supported by Welby, springs to mind.

Yes, there's some really scary threads on MN about charismatic churches targeting teens.

Others are growing due to genuine desire for community, faith etc without smoke & mirrors though.

100% - can't make either side happy by prevaricating.

My DC attended a Boys Brigade group (its backed by church) when he was younger. Most of the volunteers were lovely - but the leader was fucking horrible piece of work. He spoke to the children like shit - even some of us parents. Its put my DC off religion completely.

I think something to be noted is that Hindus, Sikhs & Muslims in UK are often from immigrant backgrounds somewhere in recent generations, so religion is also a community think linking them to ancestral culture. Their neighbourhood may also have many people of their culture & faith, which reinforces that.

Jewish people are more likely to have lived here for generations for longer, and they are much more likely to be secular, or belong to serious but non-Orthodox branches like Reform. Apart from the Ultra Orthodox Haredi of Stamford Hill etc

I do agree partly with your points.

Otoh on this : 'Other faiths are not embarrassed by themselves. They do not constantly apologise for existing or dilute their beliefs in the hope of being liked'

• are you referring to stuff like ordaining women or gay relationships? Yes, some people may view that as dilution but otoh many others are put off by religions not doing that. Or did you mean something else?

Re Islam in particular, it's common for Muslims who leave the faith to be harassed, ostracised or even threatened with violence, so that may partly be why Islam is perceived to be good at retaining members.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34357047&ved=2ahUKEwjHvdvbgNCSAxWD97sIHaaOLP0QFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1AFSFbAmD3sKtzej4tJ_ol

I agree partly but it's common for Muslims who leave the faith to be harassed, ostracised or even threatened with violence, so that may partly be why Islam is perceived to be good at retaining members.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34357047&ved=2ahUKEwjHvdvbgNCSAxWD97sIHaaOLP0QFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1AFSFbAmD3sKtzej4tJ_ol

It isn't wonderful at all. It's bleak.

Absolutely.

Rejoining a religion like Christianity can be very positive.

I don't like the smugness of 'real meaning' as if the lives of the non religious are devoid of it though.

Re class, I think that's always been the case to some extent.

In Mansfield Park, for one, Jane Austen, a vicar's daughter herself, comments on the issues of aristocrats' sons just getting jobs as vicars without real vocation.

Same!!
And Sunday school!

I think it’s due to lack of shame and reduced family pressure. All still present in the other religions.

I guess all of what OP wrote.
BUT of course it's about god/no god beliefs. Far fewer people who might previously have been labelled as Christians want to be labelled that way.
Many more people would label themselves as agnòstics or (if they're sensible) atheists.

Definitely in Islam. Hinduism & Sikhism I know less. In immigrant Christian communities, probably often.

Jews are an interesting comparison as most are secular or not Orthodox even if serious about it. The most religious Jewish group are the very insular Haredim, where teenagers who leave are not infrequently shunned if they leave (go 'off the derech').

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p04n1x7p

Exactly. In the past many might have lacked belief but didn't speak about it or felt Christian by background & culture.

Particularly the Catholic Church is a complete embarrassment. You can’t even say it without thinking of child rapist priests, abusive hateful nuns and poor young women and babies being mistreated. The level of hypocrisy and evil is astonishing. It is easy to understand why people don’t want to associate themselves with such a religion. It has had its day and we will see many more churches closing in the next few decades.

It's ironic that Reform supporters often complain about immigration increasing Islam (which IS potentially negative if fundamentalist) but ignore that immigration is also responsible for increasing the number of practising Christians, since Christian immigrants tend to be far more practising

I wonder how much of the growth in Christianity is due to immigrants?

Irish Catholicism (re mother and baby homes) was not all Catholicism. But I agree there were serious issues everywhere. Terrible abuse in C of E too

Religion in general is all so ridiculous though.

A non believing Catholic relative married a Muslim, he had to convert, but didn't adhere to anything, because he doesn't care either way. The kids are nominally Muslim, but drink and eat pork, and don't adhere to anything . She then converts to Christianity, and now can't visit her home country for fear of being arrested and executed as apostate. Relative isn't religious in any way so couldn't be bothered to technically covert back. I mean. How fucked up is that.

Yes absolutely. Same here. Priests are not always the most welcoming to newbies either, our current priest is actually very rude and judgemental. Very off putting

Well Catholicism is part of Christianity. But I agree otherwise that the whole situation sounds ridiculous otherwise.

Christian immigrants tend to more practicing than Muslims how? It’s really not clear what you even mean by this.

Do you mean strictness, because the vast majority of Muslims have stricter customs. And stricter penalties for leaving. If you leave Christianity, the community will pray for you and invite you to church, that’s about it, and I’m talking about the evangelicals here.

Dress code? Amount of prayer and worship? Doesn’t seem like it.

?