for thinking Christianity is declining in the UK because the churches lost credibility and community while other faiths didn’t?

[LoveWFH]

This is not about belief in God versus no God. It is about institutions and what people experience on the ground. The Church of England in particular feels like a faded bureaucracy. Empty buildings. Clergy stretched thin. Services that feel performative or stuck in a time capsule. A lot of talk about tradition but very little that speaks to how people actually live now.

There is also the trust issue. Abuse scandals. Cover ups. Financial mismanagement. A sense that when the church fails it protects itself first and the vulnerable last. You can only ask people to suspend disbelief for so long when the institution itself looks morally compromised. Younger people especially are ruthless about hypocrisy and the church gives them plenty to work with.

Then there is the class and culture gap. Christianity in the UK often feels tied to establishment power and respectability. It does not feel like it belongs to ordinary people anymore. It feels like something you inherit rather than choose. Something you tick at a wedding or funeral rather than something that shapes your life. When belief becomes purely ceremonial it is already on life support.

By contrast other faiths seem to be growing because they are lived not just referenced. They have visible daily practices. Clear moral frameworks. Strong community networks. You see them meeting regularly supporting each other showing up for births deaths crises celebrations. There is structure and discipline but also belonging. For migrants especially faith communities replace the support systems the state no longer provides.

There is also confidence. Other faiths are not embarrassed by themselves. They do not constantly apologise for existing or dilute their beliefs in the hope of being liked. People are drawn to certainty in an uncertain world. Not cruelty or dogma but clarity. Christianity in the UK often sounds unsure of what it even stands for anymore beyond being inoffensive.

So AIBU for thinking this is not some mystery about secularism but a very predictable outcome of an institution that lost its moral authority community roots and sense of purpose while others doubled down on theirs?

Re belief: 'Other religions don’t have that misunderstanding/separation'

• I think this is difficult. I see what you mean, but otoh Christianity is based on faith : 'whosoever believeth in me'. It is primarily an orthodoxy, not an orthopraxy.

If someone can't sincerely believe in the Nicene Creed, then that's not just the fault of Protestantism. It's not a fault for a religion to be an orthodoxy, but it does mean it's harder for people to stay if they sincerely feel they can't believe the key tenets

Re your point about Muslims.

Atheist Muslims may well wish to not practise and not be influenced by Islam. But the fact is that, as I said upthread, UK Muslims face threats, ostracism etc all to often if they leave the faith. In Muslim majority countries, this is usually doubled. So you've got to factor that in to why Islam seems to retain better.

Maybe because people have access education and rationalism. Other faiths are dogmatic and high level of disapproval if you’re open about not being religious. Whereas thank goodness the rest of us have moved on from that.

There are many Christian sects that ostracise apostates to this day. Jehovah's Witnesses and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints being the two that immediately spring to mind but it's also far from uncommon in evangelical and charismatic Christian churches too.

Right, but those are minority and not huge in the UK. Horrible

I'm not sure Christianity is as different from other religions as people are suggesting. There are plenty of Muslims, for example, who don't seem to take their faith very seriously: happily drinking and sleeping around and often just generally being unpleasant. In my experience serious religious observance is pretty rare amongst university-educated second-generation immigrants of all backgrounds, and perhaps highest in those poorer immigrant communities which have tended to shield themselves off from British culture.

There are plenty of people in every faith being unpleasant. I think everyone understands not all followers of a faith will actually take it seriously.

Serious religious observance is very common for University educated second generation immigrants where Islam is concerned. I work in this area.

I just can’t see past the Magdalene laundries. They might not exist now but they did still exist when our mums and grandmas were having babies. It’s sickening.

This exactly.

As populations become more educated and progressive, belief in magic drops.

Catholic Ireland doesn't equal all Christianity. But I agree with your point overall...😢

A lot of left wingers DO criticise Islam, bit yes, not wokies.

I agree that we scrutinise more. Which is good. Haredi Jews have had abuse scandals. Imams probably, but I suspect less investigation.

Agree also on worse repercussions for Islam etc

As a British Jew I'd say that the Churches' role as a centre of community and identity has declined. For me my religious identity is a spiritual and cultural tradition I was born into and I follow it as that rather than a faith. I guess Christianity certainly CofE, doesn't really have that pull.

And I agree with PPs that the CofE kind of pleases no one. I think its heart is in the right place, but it's kind of... wet and weedy. It's not going to inspire people exactly.

I'm not saying it's the only explanation.

But British Muslims ARE much more likely to face threats or ostracism for conversion than vice versa. That does affect matters.

Yes, Judaism is culture+ethnicity+faith (and since 1948 an official nationality) whereas Christianity is faith only, though of course it can be linked to culture.

'difficult decisions about morality and belief.'

• might you give some examples?

I was in the cngregation as a child, the vicars and canon of my local churches were strong characters with a strong messages and red lines for life. We moved home and i felt let down whe I attended a happy clappy guitar wearing vicars church, moved on and found the same at the next church. My mother died in the most horrible of circumstances and I felt my church left me. I hope that the "silent revival" fills churches wth people who now identify with the CofE.

Terrifying...

Yes, I am interested in Judaism & researching I learnt that some predict eventually this century around half or more of Jews may be Haredi due to increasing assimilation. Assuming Haredi birth rate doesn't drop, as it is starting to in Israel.

'They don’t have the strength of faith other religions like Islam in particular do anymore.'

• not just strength of faith. Also often ostracism, harassment and even physical threat.

That’s right, but Christianity could be both, and to some extent (aiui) Catholicism still is insofar as it allows for actions over faith. It’s the reformation which turned this part of it away from being an orthopraxy at all. As that’s become more and more the case, through churches being shorn of their other functions, it’s worked out placing an extremely high burden on its followers.

I do sometimes wonder whether the revival might play out via large-scale conversions to the Catholic Church.

It doesn’t I know, but it definitely tarnishes it. The core beliefs about sex before marriage still existed elsewhere and I bet there were some absolutely horrific parents who didn’t live in Ireland. Ireland just gave parents the tools to do something about their disgusting daughters.

Interesting points : I see what you mean . So many Catholic countries are not particularly religious, more cultural than anything- how does this fit with mass conversion possibility?

I don't quite follow the orthopraxy idea. Jesus specifically said you must believe in him. Yes, good works are crucial too. But otoh, if people don't really believe internally but follow practises, is that Christianity exactly? Are you hoping following actions will stimulate belief?

That's true....horrible. otoh Jesus never said for pregnant unmarried women to be shunned. He sat down with outcasts. But in practice, the Church was very different.

@MargaretThursdaynot according to the stats.
OP one of the reasons other religions are growing is because the population of those communities is growing (snd those who are Christain have a declining population) and they have a younger demographic. (Christianity is still growing in the Southern Hemisphere however ).
I think the interesting statistic is that more Christians are converting to other religions than the other way around.

Re this : Historically Catholic societies have secularised just as fast — often faster — than Protestant ones.

France now has a majority identifying with no religion.
Ireland went from near-universal Mass attendance to minority practice in a single generation.
Spain and Quebec show similar collapses.
Even Italy is largely “culturally Catholic” rather than believing or practicing.

If Christian orthopraxy generally preserved faith, these places should be religious strongholds.

The bible does advocate for the stoning of unmarried mothers, so it's not like it is just a few rogue priests...

That is true for ones who are betrothed. Horrible...