We don't want the government to lurch to the left

[Bargepole45]

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable.

Please vote:
YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending
YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

The Labour Party just don’t get it despite seeing how reform are polling. Even teenagers are swaying toward reform. My woke daughter is also not hating them. She works part time and is so busy but the company can’t afford to take on staff. Yet sees her uni friends desperately looking for her type of job. She thinks it’s bonkers & doing a business degree she’s discussed it with her boss & she’s said he isn’t lying

I wish a political leader would just tell the public the truth about our economy. They all promise the world, but the reality is that we are fucked, especially if we refuse to vote for anyone who is honest about this.

You mean the same Jeremy Corbyn who won more votes in a GE than Starmer did in this loveless landslide?

That Jeremy Corbyn?

It's not normal at the moment that people are net contributors over their lives. That's incorrect.

Government spends on average 17k per head of population, to pay that in taxes is about 65k income a year. As you pay other taxes let's round it to 50k a year. Unless you have a 50k a year income year in and year out through your employment you are on average not a net contributor.

Note - the 17k average spend may have increased over the past year or so.

Since the increase in NMW and company national insurance contributions

Again other countries have employers pay social security taxes to help fund pensions and healthcare.

As already said we want American style taxes but European services. We need to have a proper debate on what people believe we should fund.

Do I love paying tax? no. Would I be open to paying more? Yes but the burden has to be shared and I want the tax to improve public services.

I pay tax. Squeezed middle. Want a fairer society for everyone

Don’t be silly. This would only make a difference if millions paid it.

@Dorisbonson I said the majority are net beneficiaries….

They do indeed! Norway had oil and gas of course, but Sweden and Denmark do really well out of pharmaceuticals, advanced manufacturing and green tech - because they invest a lot in education and training. They also have well-funded childcare so it's easier for women to work - more workers generally means higher per capita GDP. And of course they are export-oriented and have all the benefits of EU membership - so get frictionless access to the single market, and benefit from research and industrial policy funding and skilled migration.

Agree
but
All and equally then because many people pay hardly a penny

Yes, but the vast majority of the electorate don’t want to hear it or believe it’s all the fault of the boats. Reform can promise utopia and people lap it up. 🤷🏻‍♀️

We need cross party consensus and long term policies to have a hope of changing the direction.

Thanks for the link - I didn't know that was possible

because they invest a lot in education and training

Part of the problem is the complete lack of investment we have had for years under the Tories. Lack of investment by government and lack of investment by business, low interest rates encouraged it.

But why are you shocked? Most people on here haven't studied economics so haven't got a clue.

They probably don't even know what an IMF bailout would entail so how can they possibly vote?

Exactly. We can't spend more now without crashing the economy. An IMF bailout is a very real prospect with the amount of money we are in debt and our reliance on financial markets. Nobody can tax Amazon etc properly. Wealth taxes don't work. Tax rises on businesses cripple the economy. We have run out of options

Through taxation of course. Nobody denies this. What you can't do though is increase the tax burden so much that you choke the economy and actually shrink tax receipts and standards of living for everyone. You also can't borrow your way out of this mess or commit to unfunded spending. The financial markets will punish us enormously. We are in a financial mess

All of this on the back of 15 years of Austerity, right-wing government, and ever increasing government borrowing despite refusal to spend.

You could be forgiven for thinking the country is in this predicament precisely because it's been nowhere near "left" enough.

We have run out of options

Well, not quite. We've run out of all the right-wing options because that's all that's been employed, and they've only made the overall situation worse.

That precedence already was set by the previous government.

They moved from fairly central to so far right you needed binoculars and nothing could happen until a GE.

I don’t think this Labour government will lurch left under Starmer. He’s fairly centric but he does have some LW philosophies but I agree with those because the cost of overtly is higher than the cost of welfare.

You think the NHS with 1.5m employees is so efficiently run that cuts can't be made without maintaining or increasing standards of care?

In any organisation there are ways of working which can be improved.

By way of small example, last year at hospital I filled in my information to a paper form and then a staff member manually input that to a computer told me to take a seat and then when it was my turn someone else guided me through a set of double doors. There were multiple staff members sitting around. The whole process could have been replaced with an iPad, a tv screen and an arrow - most patients would have been fine unassisted. That could prudently save over 150k a year? There will be tens of thousands of opportunities like this

There will be paperwork and paperwork processes which will be carried which could be streamlined.

1.5m employees is massive. If you think there are no efficiency savings then you are very naive.

They probably don't even know what an IMF bailout would entail so how can they possibly vote?

An IMF bailout is highly unlikely.

One of the big problems we have is our ludicrous planning system. One of the big pharma firms wanted to build a big research lab somewhere last year creating loads of jobs and just gave up due to the endless loopholes. We need to make it easy for firms to bring jobs here. We don’t.

Lurching sounds bad.

Should be a poll option for decisively swinging leftward.

Or some other direction.

Not quite sure how they can "lurch to the left".

In terms of spending at least.

If they tax more a taxed out population is going to go nuts, especially if they break the manifesto promises.

If they try to borrow money the markets are going to hit them with a sledgehammer on bond yields.

So it won't be as much a lurch to the left, but a quick foray into the left and then a rush back to the centre when it all goes t*ts up if they do try it.

Precisely why so many educated high earners are leaving the country and in return we get families that will always be a drain on society. The country is in a doom spiral.
Everyone expects the government to give them everything for free (paid for by the diminishing numbers of actual net tax payers which is very few).

All of this on the back of 15 years of Austerity, right-wing government, and ever increasing government borrowing despite refusal to spend

Funny how this gets overlooked. Productivity has been shit for nearly 2 decades!!!!

I know so many young professionals leaving it’s terrifying. Medics and engineering graduates. A few accountants too. Lower housing costs, higher pay, better public services.

Educated people tend to be more left leaning though. They don’t routinely leave the country. And if they do why do we want them?

Why do we want to hang onto some sixk who thinks they are above paying tax to help their fellow citizens.

Good riddance to them.