AIBU to be hurt and offended by husband suggestion of changing will?

[honeylulu]

I wondered whether to put this in legal matters but it's really about how I feel and if I'm being unreasonable to think like this.

Background - married to husband for 25 years (together 30). We have two children together, one a young adult at uni and I've just started secondary. This is my first marriage, he had a short marriage/divorce before we met. Neither of us have any children other than the two from our marriage. When our first baby was born we made mirror wills leaving everything to each other or if predeceased by spouse then to the children of our marriage (worded like that as we knew we would likely have another). Those wills have been in place for over 20 years. If it's relevant I drafted the wills as they were quite simple (I'm a solicitor, not a probate one but know my way around the basics).

Our house is the biggest asset, owned as joint tenants and no mortgage. There is also an age gap - he is 65 and I am 51. I'm also the higher earner and a lot of the lifestyle extras we enjoy (holidays, home improvements) are possible due to my income. We've both had modest inheritances over the years and put them towards paying off mortgage so completely merged into family assets.

Recently my husband's younger brother died suddenly. Still early days but he has left H half his estate. Won't be a vast amount but maybe 150k or so. H dealing with probate solicitors and remarked last week that we ought to get our wills updated (I don't disagree with that as some of the details are now out of date). The shock bit was that he said he is thinking of changing things so that I am only left a life interest in his assets so that they remain untouched for our kids to inherit when I die. Obviously that only applies to cash assets and chattels though he seemed to think it also applied to "his share" of the house (I reminded him that as joint tenants we dont have shares).

I am sensitive to the fact that he is shocked and grieving so we haven't talked about it properly. I did express some surprise and ask for the reason and he said it would be to keep his money safe for the kids in case I got remarried or conned by someone or it all went on care home fees. I have said fairly lightheartedly that I was quite offended as I also have our kids' best interests at heart and there is no way I would remarry etc for those very reasons. Being a lawyer, I'm extremely practical and risk averse.

I did ask why this change now, as it would have made more sense to insist on such a provision when we made the first wills in my early 30s, when it would have been a more realistic possibility that if I was widowed young that i could have remarried/had more children with someone else. He didn't explain further but I think the change is the inheritance he will now receive. I also suspect (which is why I have not pressed it further) that it has been prompted by his grief and sense/fear of his own mortality.

Why is it bothering me so much? It's not the money itself, it's the feeling that he doesn't trust me to do the best for our children. And our marriage vows - all that I have I share with you. It also feels a bit of a slap in the face that all the time I've had more income/savings I've been happy to share the benefits with the whole family but now he's getting a chunk of money he wants to keep it safe from me.

I'm not even sure it would be the best thing because if (assuming i do survive him) if I wanted to give the kids a house deposit or wedding gift I can only do that from my own funds. I couldn't give them anything "from dad" because his money would be locked up until I died.

So, am I right to feel hurt?
Or is he just being practical and sensible (and I should cut him some slack while he's shocked and grieving) considering I won't be left "poor" anyway? To be fair he's also suggested I should do the same in my will which would leave him worse off if I die first.

Sorry it is long. I didn't want to leave out/drip feed anything. There is probably more detail if needed but those are the main points I think.

Actually op, ive changed my mind about telling him no Do everyting in this post instead!!

Similar happened with my in-laws - however the ringfenced asset was the property not the cash/accounts. Thus when MIL passed, FIL was not left in financial distress but her half of the property is/was safeguarded for her children (he is step-FIL) when he passes. He has remarried so was a wise move, although as much part of our lives with his new wife as he ever was.

Ah yes we added deed of variation to DM's then asked DFIL to do the codicil.

For us I am hoping to slowly give my cash to DC's as so little of mine left for him to be conned out of (he is too kind and generous for his own good)

Was so much easier in the old days when most of us had very little to pass on.

I'm considering changing our wills so a chunk of mine goes directly to DC.

MIL died and her will left her half of everything to DH & SIL as she was worried her half would be diverted to someone else's DC. DH decided FIL needed it, so gave it to him instead. FIL was elderly, with multiple complex health issues & not someone we thought would find a new partner.

FIL married MIL's friend within the year, sold the house & handed new DW most of it & has willed most to her as well. DH & SIL will get a few pennies from the estate.

I'm extremely unsettled after seeing how fast he moved on from his wife of 50 years, for companionship and a carer. It's like MIL never existed. I expect DH would do the same. He's too passive & doesn't think ahead so won't ensure DC are taken care of. He'll just hand it all over & our DC will be left penniless.

The advantage is that you pass your IHT allowance to your spouse when they die and spousal transfers don’t pay inheritance tax. Your half of the family estate can then be distributed by the surviving spouse, hopefully more than 7 years before they die. The kids therefore receive more.

That’s very upsetting. Your husband should have structured it as an interest free loan, not a gift.

PS in my experience it is usually husband who do this, not wives. Mothers seem hardwired to prioritise their children.

Surely this is a sensible approach when considering the implications of inheritance tax. If it goes to you and then the kids they will pay more tax when you die? He's just being practical.

I voted 'not unreasonable' because I would be hurt by this too.

However I think you're right to suspect that his thinking processes will be impacted by losing his younger brother. This will not only destabilise him in general but as you say, is likely to be a stark reminder of his own mortality.

I also think it's completely reasonable for him to want to know that if he's suddenly gone tomorrow, he's left a bit of himself behind to take care of your children when he can't.

The fact that he imagines you may remarry tells me he thinks you're gorgeous and lovely and will have offers from eligible men if he's not around.

He's right, and you should do the same.

I don't know why people hoard money to pass on as inheritance. Why doesn't he just give the money to the DC now or in a few years so they can have a simpler start to adulthood?
I do think it's sensible of him to protect money for the DC. It's all well and good saying you wouldn't remarry but you have no idea what the future holds or how you could be affected by grief and loneliness. There's a chance you will become vulnerable as an older person.

My husband’s will leaves practically everything to our son, with a life interest for me, unless I remarry. This is ok with me. Why should any new husband get to live in my son’s house and perhaps try to claim on it? He’s from a Napoleonic law culture, where children cannot be cut of wills. So our wills in the UK reflect this. I totally get it. I would want everything to go to my son in any case. I’ve done the same with my will.

In the UK, it’s so common to see second wives or husband inherit everything and then the kids from the first marriage get nothing. So many times, wives trust their husband to do the right thing… only for them to remarry, leave it all to their new wives, trusting them to do the right thing …. and they don’t.

OP is younger than her DH. Chances are, she might remarry at some point if her DH died. Her DH is just future-proofing their children’s inheritance, like a good parent should.

My sister has remarried after being widowed to a a man who was also widowed. The wills are complicated and really her children have been disadvantaged.

This is the issue, once you get in to the realms of realising you will actually die and he is a fair bit older than you so has especially now his brother has died wants to tidy stuff up. People remarry and many a mess is made financially. We need to redo our wills and it’s a timely reminder.

@MermaidMummy06 This is my fear, DH and I have complex finances. I know people seem to pool money a lot on MN but not us I know exactly what my accumulated assets are worth and it’s considerably more than average for my age demographic . The thought of me dying first and then another wife and not our child getting the money does worry me. Many men remarry very quickly.

I may be wrong but I think what he’s saying makes sense. You might be relatively young when he dies and you can’t say you’ll never remarry. He’s just looking out for your kids. I think it’s fine.

I think he is worried that if he dies, and then you meet someone else, and then you die the money would end up with your new partner and not the kids.

Given your significant age gap its fairly understandable.

If you leave your assets to your spouse in a lifetime trust there is no IHT when the trust is created and you pass your IHT allowance to your spouse. The IHT payable is therefore exactly the same and your children will not receive any less than if you had left your property to your spouse and they left it to your children.

he doesn’t really seem motivated by effective planning, more from protecting his assets from the op and I’d be very hurt. I’d give it perhaps a month for grieving, then sit him down and say you told me your plans with changing your will to cut me out. All of our life together I’ve shared generously and unstintingly, so this is very hurtful. I iust want to ask you if you’re serious before I halve my contribution to the joint account and stop subsiding you. I’ll just send the rest to my own accounts and decide what to do with it.

I think if a guy were to threaten this it would be labelled as financial abuse.

YABU. Due to the sudden loss of his brother, he WILL be starting to think seriously of his own mortality, especially at his age. There's lots and lots of articles in mainstream media, social media, TV, etc., about how expensive care home fees can be and how they can virtually eliminate an average estate in a very short time period, also due to Reeves' changes, a lot of coverage about Inheritance tax - even if her changes don't impact you/him, lots of coverage starts to make people think about it - is it possible that his inheritance and the changes to the pension rules for IHT have pushed you/him into having an inheritance tax liability that you didn't previously have a couple of years ago?? Until recently, I don't think people realised just how expensive are care homes and how so many people are expected to self fund.

I'm an accountant and never had so many queries from my clients about care home fee planning and inheritance tax planning - last year was the busiest in those areas whereas in the 25 years prior that I had my small practice, such queries were very rare! The pension fund changes affect a huge number of people bringing them into IHT scope when previously their estate would have been within the exemption. Of course, house price inflation, investment gains, etc also drag people into IHT when the IHT threshold has remained frozen for so many years!

So I wouldn't think too deeply about it and certainly not take offence until you find out exactly his motivations. There's a very strong probability he's suggesting it for all the right reasons rather than not trusting you. Me and DH re-wrote our wills last year due to the pension fund changes and also DH has an incurable illness which may well cause him to require professional care (either at home or in a home) for several years. We've also gifted a substantial sum of money to our son sooner than we'd have otherwise planned to, in the hope/expectation that we will live long enough for it to be disregarded when it comes to care home fees or inheritance tax.

Wow? Really?

Abusive and pretty much marriage over time.

If he’s just enshrining what she says shes going to do anyway, what’s the problem? The arrangement also protects her life interest.

I think you're being a bit sensitive .

What would your position be if he did this? You would have a paid off house and presumably a pension? Any share of his pension?

I'd suggest to him that some is left outright to you and the rest to kids, perhaps in trust until they are 21/25?

I don’t know if it’s right or wrong @honeylulu but I’m in a very similar situation. In our case, they is only one (adult) child, from my DH’s first marriage. DH wants to leave him the house, with me having a lifetime interest “so I can stay here as long as I like”. When he proposed it I burst into tears which surprised both of us.

Now, I have no problem whatsoever in that he will want to ensure that DSS inherits from his dad. But it was the blithe assumption on what would happen to my contribution (“well you don’t have kids of your own”) and the feeling of being trapped in this house - why would I continue to maintain and look after it if I couldn’t recoup my investment for my own care home fees in the future.

i told him he needs to speak to someone who is expert in estate planning to point out the pros and cons of this approach. The house was originally DH’s, bought before we got together so it’s still in his name although I paid half the mortgage and maintenance costs, so I’m sure I could make a claim to it if I wanted.

in our case, DH also has savings that are worth about the same as the house, so I said if he wants to ensure DSS gets half of all his assets, why not write the will to say that. And leave DSS and I the flexibility to decide between us the best way of achieving that depending how old and doddery I am and my needs.

i also don’t get the “avoid care home fees” bit. Yes, they are astronomical (my siblings and I are currently paying £5500 per month for my parent) but surely the very reason you save for your old age is so that you can be comfortably looked after? Having that money means choice - mums council social worker said that mum (bed bound) could go home from hospital and have carers 4x a day. She’d have to wear incontinence pants and lie in her own waste between carer visits. If no one had any money to pay for a care home, that’s what her years of payments to the “state” would have got her. In her care home she’s looked after better than we ever could and is worth every penny as far as I’m concerned.

I can see why you feel it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Finances were joint when it suited him, then once it was him bringing more in that changes.

However... there is some sense to what he's saying. And your wills are old, you do need to look at them again.

Yes, a very common scenario where one spouse is a lot younger than the other. Eminently sensible to ensure assets/estate goes to the "joint" children rather than step-children or a new spouse. It's not a matter of trust, or lack of trust the surviving spouse would "do the right thing" - sometimes, things happen too quickly for proper planning/new wills etc, sometimes mistakes happen, i.e. owning a new home in the "wrong" manner, i.e. joint ownership instead of tenants in common or vice versa. Sometimes, people don't realise that a long standing will becomes invalid upon marriage and intestacy laws would apply rather than the old will, etc. I've seen it all with some of my clients and it's not pretty when things don't turn out as expected/planned.

It sounds like he is being sensible and protecting the inheritance for your children. If you are the higher earner and a joint tenant in the house then presumably you are financially secure should he die before you.

I don’t think it’s a trust issue - he’s not squirrelling it away for his own purposes in case you get divorced!