Bullied at work solidarity needed

[Bulliedmanager]

Hello I am a regular poster but name changed.
I am a manager in a public sector job. I won't be specific bit the closest equivalent is a cross between teaching and health care. I've inherited a team who were previously run by a bully (he was encouraged to move on to a new setting and stepped down to avoid being removed from the job. The team are very much in his image.
I'm being bullied by them in similar ways, all using plausible deniability.
I don't need solutions from this thread really, just solidarity. Also would be helpful to chat with public sector workers who know what this is like, family members in the private sector just say "go to HR, manage them out" but in my 30 years in public sector work, this is rarely done so would be helpful to chat with people who know what this is like.
I am keeping a running log with my line manager but I know nothing will happen to them. I can give specific examples if you need them (adapted to ensure anonymity) but really I just want a bit of hand holding I guess . It's Sunday and I'm already dreading tomorrow!

Leave, it's never worth it

Pull them on it. You're their boss. 'Excuse me, who do you think you're talking to?' Goes a long way. I agree with your family, manage them out if they can't shape up.

That sounds rough, can you give examples? As a public sector worker, I can't imagine this happening. Everyone in any team I've worked has always been respectful of their superiors. If we weren't, we'd just be disciplined.

I’ve been in the public sector senior management for years and once a team has this mindset it’s a nightmare, it becomes like a culture if that makes sense. What’s some examples of the bullying?

I will give examples but I'm aware that the examples I give will likely have people saying "I do that and it's not bullying" as so much of it is small.
Here is an example : as part of my role, our team has to provide an out of hours (one weekend a year open to service users) this is part of the job but not enforceable (think pe teacher taking a fixture after school)
They all say they will do it , then as time goes on, and very close to the date they all say they have childcare issues , mental health, colds etc) I then go.to.my management and have to.think about cancellation, employ agency staff etc , everyone scrambles then they all turn up on the day and I look over hysterical /worried . Management can't really tackle as its all plausible (sorry I have got childcare after all, my cold is better etc etc) we can log it but how many years will I have to.do it?
There are also small sneaker things like my emails never acknowledged but everyone else's are, overt praise of the team by each other but never an acknowledgement of my role etc etc
None of them want my job, if I left they would bully the next manager too

Yep, that’s not bullying.
The first example is one of a system fault. If staff are not contracted to do this extra ‘shift’, then they are not obliged to commit to it. As a manager, I would expect you to come up with a solution to this problem. Eg, if cover is needed in 2 week’s time, give the team a week to offer cover, making it clear that once they agree they’re committed. If no one offers after a week, get supply in. Tell everyone cover is no longer needed. Presumably they get paid extra for this cover? Anyone who agrees then backs out last minute doesn't get a chance to cover in the future.
Regarding email replies, how do you know everyone is replying to everyone else’s emails? Are their emails not confidential? In my job, no one is expected to acknowledge an email if it’s just information sharing. We have read receipts so we know they have been read.
Is this your first managerial role? Have a look on Instagram at Missclairebenjamin - she’s great at coaching managers in dealing with tricky staff.

Agree with PP.
Your first example is a definitely a systemic failure which as their manager you need to address.

It is very common for workers not to ‘like’ their boss. You need to deal with that, but just make sure you’re able to work together.

It is bullying. It's being logged as bullying with union representative. I've given one example here, and literally predicted the outcome.

As I said , I wanted a hand hold thread from people who get it.

I know the next comment will be how I'm wrong again .

Not a new manager, brought in to manage a difficult team, having come from a successful one

I think any examples I can give will be difficult to convey whilst changing them for anonymity

I am a manager in public sector too, have done both NHS and education. I'm afraid I have to agree with the previous poster, that the system needs to change. They won't like it, they will be arsey about it, but the event needs to happen so you put something in place to stop the silly buggering about. Same as the emails, if you want acknowledgement of something, state that in your email, with a deadline to acknowledge and clear instructions of how it is to be acknowledged. Also include the line ' if you do not acknowledge this by x, it will be assumed you agree/have no feedback'. If they say oh I didn't get to read the email before that date then you can manage that.

It is hard to manage people out in public sector. But you also need a very thick skin in public sector management. They aren't bullying you, they are testing your management boundaries, so firm them up.

Good advice and the boundaries are firm. Silly buggers is right
Take your point about public sector and I am experienced
My specific case is bullying , and has been categorised as such especially after the previous manager I am having support but it doesn't make it easier

Sorry I cross posted, and you were right that the next post was disagreeing too! But I do get it. I managed a team that actively disliked my appointment into managing their team. They would also create difficult situations for me. But I was there to manage them, not befriend them. I made some changes, I held my ground. Did it get to me? Sure, but that was for me to manage, not show it. In the end I managed one team member out to another team, and one left. It transformed the team. You can do this. But you should also be getting solid support from your manager too.

I get it but you need to be quite tough. Supervise each one of them one on one. Talk to them about their behaviour. How it comes across to others and how their needs to be a supportive team.

There arghhhhh

You have to stand up to bullies - its the only way.

So from your post the only buy in you got was when you went to management and talked about having to cancel - hence repercussions. Have a deadline date for requirements and the next time they bail and last minute sort themselves out state agency staff have now been engaged and they are not required or the even has been cancelled. Do they get paid for additional hours?

It's not quite an exact scenario for anonymity
Management would be "oh thanks for supporting"
It's a previous poster has it right - playing silly buggers, destabilising etc

I have been bullied. It's nasty rude emails and phonecall. Its lying to cover their own arse and throw you under the bus, screaming regularly at you in front of 60 people, leaving you in tears at least weekly, had to take diazapam and self medicated, banned from taking breaks, just constant criticism over mistakes I did not make. Calling me when I'm on break or at home demanding to know where I am.

I honestly don't think you can call the examples you gave bullying. Not wanting to do something but then turning up for it? That's good isn't it?
Why do you need praise? They're just doing their jobs and so are you. Not praising someone isn't bullying.

You gave 2 examples of issues you are having with your team. If your perception is that their behaviour is bullying you, then that’s your perception and as such you’re right to ask for support from HR. As a manager, I would not see it as such, I’d see it as staff gaming a poor system and would want to improve that system for clarity. Once that is addressed and staff continue to behave in the same way, then you look at taking them to task.
”we agreed XYZ with regards to cover, but I’ve noticed you’re not complying. Is there a reason why? Is there any support you may need to be able to comply?”
Are you in a Union?
Edit - sorry, I see that you’re in a union. What have they advised?

It is bullying. It's been categorised as such by management and my union and things are in motion to log it. Remember the examples I've given are not exact due to anonymity

Because of a larger picture with ex manager, it's been advised that I log and discuss with my lm and then we look at ways to tighten boundaries. That all takes lots of time though and it's hard in the meantime

The system (and non-contractual) situation is ALLOWING them to play silly buggers.
Sort that out.

Yes, it’s very hard but can be very satisfying once you notice change. Do check out the Instagram woman I mentioned - she’s excellent. MIssClaireBenjamin

Ok fair enough. I guess I just experienced it in a more severe fashion. I'm sorry its happening. Presumably if it's confirmed as such they will be disciplined?

Because of the plausible deniabilty bit it needs to be logged for ages to show a pattern

New managers getting bullied by their team is very real. Also known as mobbing.

I experienced this, and I despise the word bullying because it cast me as a victim. In reality I was a bright professional colleague who stood out from the rest and as such attracted negative attention. My own line manager chose the path of least resistance and managed me rather than tackling the real problem- a group of entitled lazy people who had not been managed until I came along.

it’s not you. Don’t be attached to how your words are perceived. You are the manager and they should respect that. It’s not for them to manage you