Male friend sees romantic relationships as transactional and thinks lower and middle class men should go to Asia to find wives

[Primrose86]

I am 33 and have been married for 10.5 years with a 7 month old son. When we married, my dh was a poor student and we supported each other through unemployment, burnout/sickness, family drama, 3 year stint of living with his mum in our 20s (to save a deposit to buy a london flat) etc. There has been times when our disposable income was great and we could afford lots of holidays and weekend breaks plus overpay 1k into our mortgage. Other times less so.

My friend is in his early 30s and is convinced that women only like rich men (he thinks my dh is rich because he has an income of 75k which isnt that amazing in London). He thinks that another guy we both know (let's call him Friend A) who has been unlucky in love, would be much more successful on dating apps if he wrote ' I have a mortgage free 2 bed house in North London, no student loans, a car paid for in cash and am a lawyer'. All true BTW but of course Friend A is still single and has been single for most of the 11 years i have known him. He thinks that it is because Friend A is much too modest about his money or the women would all be lining outside his door.

Is this why so many younger men struggle now with relationships. Cos they have this view that they need to be the provider and women are only attracted to providers. He thinks love marriages are the minority. And says he would encourage all lower and middle class men to go to Asia to find a wife cos they have more economic power in Asian countries. When I tried to counter with examples, he thinks I am in denial and cited that men in the top 20% of the income quintiles are mostly in relationships but most in the poorest quintiles are single (i think personally its because higher earning men can afford to go on lots of dates which increases their chances; also attributes that command a higher salary are also attributes valued on the dating market like charisma/emotional intelligence).

Its honestly quite warped because most married men are not millionaires and marrying someone solely because they aren't high earning isn't even that lucrative anyway given frozen income tax thresholds and also job insecurity (many HENRY jobs can be lost during redundancy or are very high stress leading to burnout). Also this is based on the assumption that he will share his money with you...

and she will, because I know few Thai women who did exactly that and they are nowhere that docile as white old guy thinks they are

Maybe he's not an incel, but he's definitely a massive twat. No chance I'd be mates with a melt like that.

Isn’t it great when men lecture women about what women really want?

I particularly love it when terminally single men with no track record of giving any woman anywhere anything she wants are self-proclaimed experts on this topic.

But it seems a risky decision though. I am glad it worked out for you but my dh works in banking (not super well paid) and redundancy/burnout is not a distant possibility. The future isnt certain and it is 1 factor out of many. It makes life easier if your dh earned a lot of money (or you earned a lot of money) but so do other things, for example your dh having healthy and helpful local parents who are willing to look after kids full time could easily save 36k per annum in childcare bills for 2 (even with free childcare hours), which could well be £70k per annum in pre-tax income.

What he is saying is that it is impossible for poor or middle income men to find a woman.

"What he is saying is that it is impossible for poor or middle income men to find a woman."

Well that's clearly not true is it.

Your friend sounds like an incel edgelord gobshite whose brain has been scrambled by the internet.

He's swallowed the incel pill. Such utter nonsense. If women want to be 'protected' how come we all have jobs and earn our own money and the vast majority of even vaguely financially stable marriages and families rely on two incomes? Intentionally marrying a woman from another culture who is only interested as a means to lift herself out of poverty is in no way a recipe for happiness.

He may be right that friend A would attract more interest if he said those things, but that is because lawyers are intelligent, and successful women like intelligence, and if he is financially secure, they - also financially secure, can be assured they won't be landed with a sponger, or someone who thinks a date is a walk around the park, a pint in Spoons and forever more sitting on the sofa. A man with disposable income is more likely to be up for weekends abroad, good shows and gigs - but not expected to fund them. How does friend A describe himself if he doesn't say what his job is?

It's not your job to educate this halfwitted bigot. But you might want to raise the bar on friendship.

I dont know. Our uni friends all ended up with other uni friends. Or dh mates with girls from abroad, USA Oz etc.
i do see money when men are older as being a attractive factor to encourage a second date at least.
obviously the case for some lower earning women at least.
sometimes the money allows the men/women to spend more on their looks too.
watching race around the world you see the young lads having women from other countries fall all over them. In a way that girls from uk probably werent.

Our uni mate had a thing for girls from 1-2 other countries. So about looks. As they would have been a lot more attractive than him. But also even with a teenager wanting to get with a uk boyfriend. He did end up with a girl from abroad who likely wanted to move here.

It probably is true women will put up with a less than ideal partner if they at least have money. But also a mate of DH had been single for years then met a girl who had enough money for her parents for pay for s large chunk of their house and they were married within the year. He settled quickly because he could see the advantages it clearly wasnt a quick falling in love.

I’m just feeling cross on behalf of a friend of mine from the Philippines who has married a UK guy. She’s not a commodity.

Im not naive enough to think that economics never play a role in dating decisions. He may find that women everywhere value themselves as deserving more than just that.

I am sure Friend A says his job but there are many people with good jobs in London (esp in North London where we live). What is more rare is that his parents bought him a house (2 bed terraced in north London isn't cheap) and it is in a trust under his name so I guess a future partner wouldnt need to pay rent or mortgage and they could easily upsize to a much larger property given the amount of equity he already has. I still think saying that on a dating app would make women run cos you would sound like an absolute bell end

I'll let DP know that he's a figment of my imagination.

LOL. You are right he might sound like a bellend if he emphasised it. But if he just said: lawyer, own home, and then just listed his interests, it would imply he is doing well in the world and that is attractive in itself, not because he can provide for a woman but because he can support himself.

Omg. give the incel a wide one OP!

I wouldn’t be interested in a guy who flaunted his money because I’d be wondering what he thought he was buying. I’m not for sale!

Most of them are used to masking on a daily basis because they know they’re not able to share these disgusting views with 90% of the people they come into contact with but it’s been quite clear from recent scandals in France and the UK that the vast majority of men hold these views and the only reason why they aren’t expressing them freely is down to the HR department
As you’ve seen once they’re comfortable with you they’re more than happy to express there in a thoughts

I think his opinions are extreme but yours are maybe a little naive. “Most ultra wealthy men are in relationships because they have more money to go dates”. No I don’t think so. It’s because they are rich and powerful and many women are attracted to that. Not only because they have money, also the power that comes along with that. I don’t think the majority of women want a rich man, I don’t, and none of my friends would care how much money a potential partner had, but it can’t be denied there’s a significant portion of women out there who do very much care about this. Why do very average looking men with very average personalities, but enormous wealth, always have extremely attractive girlfriends 20 years younger than them?? You just have to watch any documentary about catfish victims to see how important wealth is to many women, to the extent they’d fall for someone online, who they’d never met IRL, just because he told them he earns 300k a year and drives a Lamborghini

This is ridiculous. I out earn my partner by at least 3x
I'm with him for his intelligence, makes me laugh and big willy.

Your revolting friend has a very low opinion of women if he thinks that we are all only interested in money, and he sees us as commodities that can be bought and sold.
Kick him to the kerb before he starts getting in your husband’s ear.

What does this friend of yours do for a living @Primrose86? Would he accept being with a woman that earns more than him?

His statement wasnt about ultra rich men. His statement was about men in the top 20% of the income distribution.

Men in the highest income quintiles are significantly more likely to be married compared to those in lower income brackets

A top 10% salary in uk is £70k. Actually he lives in the north and his salary is 44k so relative to cost of living he is probably in the top 20% of incomes for men in their early 30s in his area but still the women aren't running.

Works for the government.

He's an incel.

What woman in her right mind is going to want to date someone with his misogynistic views?

If you want to help him, then tell him that the problem is not his income, it's him.

But personally, I wouldn't bother. He isn't worth it.

he thinks he is attractive to her because he is obviously richer in absolute terms than most men in her country

I mean maybe it’s true … but doesn’t this bother him?? Doesn’t he want to be with someone who fancies him and likes him?? Not just sees him as a walking wallet? I feel like most people would have more pride than this.

As to the “higher earning men more likely to be married “ maybe, but that’s correlation rather than causation. Men who are intelligent, educated and have their shit together are attractive to women… and also more likely to become high earners, for the same reasons. Bet most of them got married or met their wives before the high earnings kicked in. Also, having a wife (and therefore often kids) may motivate working consistently and getting promotion rather than career hopping or travelling etc. So if there is any causation I’d say it’s the other way round.

Actually your friend is a bit naive and over simplifying the joys of getting a mail order Filipino/Asian bride - many stories about how they can be materialistic and come with large families expecting endless hand outs forever more. They may not be marrying him for love.

He thinks because she is from a middle class family this wouldn't happen. I am really not sure. Like me she is part of the chinese diaspora who lives in southeast Asia. In chinese culture, people give their parents allowance (even up to 20% of income), i am an exception because my parents are v wealthy and fairly westernised..