To ask, if you’re a teacher

[Playingvideogames]

How many children in your class are diagnosed with autism or ADHD?

I often see the ‘1%’ quoted, but my anecdata is a lot higher than this.

This isn’t a value judgement thread btw, I’m truly just curious to see the responses and if they align with the ‘official’ statistic.

UK stats for red hair is 4.6%, but good analogy - I just used the same one in another thread

I think the 1% is worldwide or something - red hair genes are more prevalent in celtic ancestry.

Secondary teacher - on average 10 in a year group. My son has an EHCP and in his cohort (Yr 7), he’s one of 26.

Much higher than 1% but my context isn’t necessarily typical. It’s a non-selective state school in an area of deprivation where they still have grammars. Doesn’t mean we have a higher % of autistic children, but it probably does vary from setting to setting. Also the 1% is probably for the whole population, not just people born since the 90s which is when more people started to get diagnosed because of a better understanding. There must be loads of autistic 60-100 year olds who were never diagnosed.

Ah thanks! I should know really being a ginge myself!

The 1% figure (for autism) is old and now known to be wrong. I think the figure for ADHD used to be estimated at 5% but likely to be an underestimate as well.

I would be really surprised if half the population is autistic (particularly formally diagnosed with autism). I don't think we will ever get to that point.

Special schools are interesting. In generic (learning disability) state special schools I have experience of, about 60% tend to have an autism diagnosis. Obviously autism specific special schools have 100% autism diagnosis. SEMH special schools I've seen around 30-40% diagnosed autism (although this was a while ago) and high ADHD diagnosis. PRUs (in my experience) tend to have slightly higher autism / ADHD diagnosis but a LOT of suspected autism / ADHD (sometimes ending up in a PRU can mean neurodivergence is identified and child us then put on assessment pathway).

I teach a core subject so get the whole spectrum of students. And definitely in the lower streams / sets / classes there will be a huge amount of children who have not had their SEN needs met and therefore are not achieving well.

Although also in the top set. Very, very quiet children. Doing really well academically, but possibly also with some social communication difficulties.

I’m SEND coordinator in Further Education and expect about 40% of the total yearly cohort to either arrive with a diagnosis, receive a diagnosis during their time as a student or present with support needs. Not just autism and ADHD but speech and language needs, social emotional and behavioural needs and complex mental health needs. Comorbidity is the norm, we are catastrophically under resourced and teacher training is not preparing teachers for this reality. It’s difficult and frustrating.

This isn't my experience at all. The level of need in mainstream is increasing massively and I don't think that is all down to a lack of special schools. I've also never had a class where it's been closed to as low as 1 in 30 and I've taught across the primary age range in a number of settings. It's interesting how different people's experiences are.

Red hair is only really found in white people so schools with higher white populations will have more ginger kids (like my DC!).

I don’t think these numbers can be explained away in the same way though.

Our school is up to 27% with SEN.

But then that is exactly the same. And will explain why some schools with have more ginger kids than others.

Why are you asking this? Usually it’s someone who wants to feed the idea of overdiagnosis.

As to lack of special schools, my autistic daughter was out of school for 18 months due to ack of provision.

When I was at school many SENd children simply didn’t come to school and no one chased it up. Or were permanently excluded.

You know cancer is more commonly diagnosed nowadays too? But that doesn’t make good daily Mail headlines.

Have you read the responses here? We’ve had responses from primary and secondary teachers, rural and urban, deprived background and less deprived. All reporting the same thing, which is far higher rates of ND than the official stats. Im not ‘feeding’ anything, the numbers speak very plainly for themselves. I’ve made no value judgements about this.

Why are you so averse to what appears to be simple numerical fact?

The education system has changed phenomenally. I managed at school and even liked it. There was no constant exam pressure, assessments, SATs, I never even got all my spelling checked 😂

Nowadays schools are forced to be these hot houses of children trained to pass exams, less music and drama and art, more rote learning and teaching to the exam. Tha will make a huge difference to whether SEND would be diagnosed. I wasn’t diagnosed as I masked well and my school experience was relatively pleasant. I was allowed to follow my interested. I wouldn’t have survived in the current eduction system.

Well first because you started with 1% which isn’t the correct statistic. It’s at least 5%.

I was a teacher too. And I’m a ND parents to ND children. A

Not a teacher but a parent of 3 primary aged children, two of whom are diagnosed. In terms of children I know about (them and their friends) that's 3 or 4 per class at least. And obviously there are lots of kids I don't know so it must be higher than that.

I’m also a massive statistics geek, and populations statistics are just that. 30% in a number of schools is meaningless to population statistics. Even lots of replies on here is a small sample. There are approx 29,000 mainstream schools in England and Wales.

I do agree that schools sound stressful and I’m all for relaxing the rules a bit and having a slower pace etc

But equally I don’t recognise this developing myth that schools never had any rules or standards and nobody cared if you bunked off. Didn’t they have attendance officers that would literally drag you out of bed? My school had uniform inspection and weekly tests.

If you’re a statistics geek then what are the odds that all the responses report the same thing, yet this isn’t at all representative of real life? It seems very unlikely. Do you think higher rates of diagnosis are a problem somehow?

When did you go to school? Mine was 80s and 90s. So no attendance officers. We had a weekly spelling test. No SATs. First exams I ever did was GCSEs.

Coursework was still a thing, we all chose our own topic and got on with it. We wrote stories in primary English, without any scaffolding and genuinely no spell check!

This isn’t about rules, I love rules, most ND people do. They don’t like pointless ones (asking to take a blazer off), and the pressure of constant “achieving”

Even though all for all teachers, there is a sociological phenomenon that suggests that people are more likely to post if they fit the general themes of the answers. And in and spectrum of statistical answers you will have groupings. Unless you survey all teachers in all 29,000 schools though you can’t get a spread.

I am not a teacher. But my beloved late daughter was a primary school teacher.

She taught year 4. She had a SEND specialism (this was her passion and she was, I’m told and I believe, a gifted and dedicated teacher). She had the smallest of 3 year 4 classes. But had been allocated most of the children with SEN. Out of her 21 pupils, 6 had a diagnosis of ADHD or ASD and another 6 or more were on the pathway to diagnosis. She spoke of her work with such enthusiasm and dedication. She has been a great loss to her school (and to us of course).

DfE data shows 20% But Remember that SEND includes the D, which is any child who is disabled. Not just and or learning difficulties. But children with epilepsy, diabetes, wheelchair users, cerebral palsy etc.

Secondary teacher here. Diagnosed as autistic myself - via the NHS and by a psychiatrist.

To answer your initial question directly, about 20% either have a diagnosis or are on the pathway for a diagnosis.

General points:

From personal experience, i.e. my own and my granddaughter's (who's in Y11), I think there's a big difference between what might be described as 'classic autism' and 'autism spectrum disorder' (ASD). We're both autistic.

DSM V comes out in 2013 and this is the first time we see 'autism spectrum disorder' (previously, the criteria for diagnosis was different) and then in 2014 we get the SEND Code of Practice. Many more people fit into the diagnostic criteria for ASD post 2013 than previously fitted into the diagnostic criteria for autism pre-2013.

In the area where I work, children aren't screened / diagnosed with FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome). Children aren't routinely categorised as ACE (adverse childhood experiences). The 'symptoms' of both can look like autism (also ADHD).

I'm unsure whether I think the higher rates of diagnosis are a problem because the children are displaying 'symptoms' of something, and these somethings can be managed by using autistic friendly strategies. However, there's clearly a huge issue when a society refuses to accept that its young people are carrying the burden of inherited addiction, poverty and significant trauma from childhood. Perhaps if we reversed the gutting of our health and social care services, then we'd see fewer diagnoses of autism and more action earlier to support our children and young people.

I should think very few people like ‘pointless rules’.