To ask you to swerve vacations abroad on airplanes

[Happyone99]

Inspired by https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5433252-to-ask-you-to-swerve-shein-temu?page=24

As mentioned above, I personally don’t use Shein or Temu because they ARE terrible. However, why only change bad things lower income people happen to be involved with, rather than starting with things higher income people are involved with

Slave labour and poor working conditions are indeed terrible. So is the climate crisis, exacerbated by rich people flying on airplanes for vacations, and poor people in low-lying countries like Bangladesh suffer worst environmental consequences

Who are responsible for the most emissions and who are suffering the most?

I suggest you read the European Environment agency emissions report - short haul between domestic cities is the highest carbon per person then cars.

Good to see your completely ignoring the elephant in the room from emissions of lithium mining (plus also some very questionable ethics) if you think that EVs magically solve the problem.

Given that food waste is responsible for 8-10% of all global greenhouse gas emissions, we can all make a massive difference by starting in the kitchen & reduce food waste

https://unfccc.int/news/food-loss-and-waste-account-for-8-10-of-annual-global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-cost-usd-1-trillion

Emissions from the fashion industry is responsible for more global carbon emissions than airplanes and shipping combined.

We can all buy a lot less clothing - there will be enough clothing in existance right now to clothe the entire world for years & years.

Lower income households care about these things too.

Well you’re not going to win anyone over with comments like that.

My dc are 21 and 17. They’ve been on holidays that involved short haul flights three times. How much suffering would have been eased if they hadn’t?

The issue really isn’t caused by our, less frequent than annual, holidays to Spain or Greece!

Most of us try to be aware of what we can do to minimise our impact but it’s all a trade off. Accept that people are minimising their impact in their way and you are doing it yours.

Flying gives me no joy, I don't like it but it gets me where I want to go fast

I get you care, and that's admirable - I've never flown at 46 so have no skin in the game - however, unfortunately, regardless of what we as individuals do, the biggest countries are not cutting their emissions, so ultimately its all futile.

What share of global CO₂ emissions come from aviation? - Our World in Data

2.5% from air travel.

Greenhouse gases from intensive animal agriculture | FAIRR | FAIRR

19.6% from eating meat.

Far better for the environment to eat plant based and head off to the Seychelles...

I’ve never seen so many posters completely
miss the point.

YANBU, OP.

I do think there is a difference though between buying stuff from Shein and Temu because they need something and that’s what they can afford, and overconsumption of stuff from Shein and Temu (people buying hoards of stuff because it’s cheap). A friend of mine, who is pretty wealthy, does Shein ‘hauls’ for her kids before they go on holiday, and they end up with far more clothes than they could possibly wear, so I do mildly raise my eyebrow at that.
Over consumption is a big issue.

You can get help for your anxiety.

Climate Change is the biggest con trick ever attempted. Aviation is responsible for less than 3% of emissions, and the industry is getting cleaner with each new generation of aircraft.

The meat and dairy industry are responsible for around 20%, not to mention the davistation caused by deforestation and intensive farming practices.

Ever looked into the true cost of all our "green" tech?

If you think flying is bad, EV manufacturing will give you nightmares.

If you really want to help the planet you'd have titled your OP "please stop having children"

The world doesn't need anymore of us. And if you have children, then you have no voice when it comes to environmental issues.

Ridiculously short flights like London - Manchester should be banned. Having a flight to somewhere you can get to in 4 hours on a train seems needlessly damaging to the environment

Personally, I try to avoid anything made in China.
Their goods are cheap for a reason and generally badly made so you end up having to buy again. I know more and more people are avoiding Chinese goods because of this, so hopefully their manufacturing output will reduce as the demand decreases.

It also often costs significantly more on the train.
I work in Edinburgh approx once a month (I’m in the midlands). I used to get the train, but my company put a stop to it because it was less than half the price to fly.

Make train travelling cheaper and give me 2 extra holidays per trip and I seriously consider it.
Yo go to my home town:
Flying: 5 hours, door to door, cost for return trip (incl car parking) £120.-
Driving: 10-12 hours, cost for return trip around £300.-
Train: 7-8 hours, 280.- one way on high speed trains... not sure how long a cheaper alternative would be.

Bottom line is, I'd take the train, if it was affordable.

So for now it's flying all the way... and for longer trips I'll use the car.

I can only assume by the words ‘vacation’ and ‘airplane’ that you live in America rather than shitsville England. Maybe you get beautiful sunny weather where you live and have no need to travel abroad.
However when you live in England with a grand total of about 3 hours sunshine per year it’s essential to travel abroad and I will be flying. Soz

Is anyone else's page now full of long haul holiday adverts? 😂

Mass consumerism is the biggest issue we have. So if you buy far too many new clothes mass produced in chinese factories, the environmental impact is the same.

The best thing we can all do is buy less, eat local and use public transport.

I would guess that the carbon footprint of people goes up depending on wealth.
Wealthier equals more disposable income, more travel, big land rover type cars, less public transport etc.

As to whether I am prepared to give up my annual holiday, no I am not. But I have made the conscious decision to cut back on short breaks and work flights.

I think it's cars that need to go. The climate damage is huge, then there's the terrible cost of harm from car accidents that people seem to just accept as a fact of life. Cars are far worse all round, so everyone should give that up first.

Really?!

It's not a question of "magically solving the problem", it's looking for the least bad option. Yes, there are moral/ sustainability questions to rare earth mineral extraction, but battery technology/ recycling capacity is constantly improving, and the damage pales into insignificance compared to the environmental, political and human rights damage caused by fossil fuel extraction.

Regarding the EU report: by how much is a journey by plane worse than a comparable journey by car, and are they measuring it as one individual in a plane seat vs one individual in a car? Also, what kind/ size of car?

I don’t have kids, I don’t drive, I’m veggie, I use my tumble dryer once or twice a year max & my flat is well enough insulated that I only need the heating on when it’s really cold. When I buy clothes I keep wearing them for years.

I do prefer trains to planes but there’s a limit to how much of my holiday I want to spend travelling so as far as I’m concerned, when possible, train there / plane back is a decent compromise.

So I’ll carry on enjoying my 2 holidays per year & I agree with most other posters that private jets / frequent fliers / AI are the bigger problems.

The "but China!" argument. China is the world leader in renewable energy.

This.
My hard earned holiday to somewhere in the med every 2 years is my business.

If celebrities can get a private jet to an environmental conference whilst preaching to us plebs, i will have my holiday in the sun thank you.

Also, as long as the train to Scotland is double (sometimes 3 times) the price of flying, I'll be flying.

As long as buses in my city are infrequent, run down and expensive, I'll drive.

As long as my recycling still goes to landfill, I'm not sorting it.

You see why people aren't open to this preaching?

I do get what you’re saying but the problem is me not taking a flight would make absolutely no difference. The flight would be going anyway. I try to reduce my impact on the planet where I can, without having a negative impact on my life. I draw the line at giving up things that are important to me. As we all do. Let’s face it most of us drive cars and live in houses heated with fossil fuels.

I mean, ideally we'd be working on both at the same time.

I always find this question interesting. Emissions from air travel are about 5% globally, so even if you grounded every plane it would not make that much difference.

Cows make up around 17% because I'd the belching they do. Electricity generation makes up the bulk of emissions and AI is going to take up more energy much more quickly than the growth of air travel.

Ground travel also uses energy but we rarely hear about people completely giving up their cars, heating, power or dairy or meat.

Air travel is an easy target and it looks really noble. But air travel, even for holidays is valuable for other economies. Travel to Kenya for safaris etc brings back produce and flowers for sale in Europe. When air travel to Kenya stopped some years ago for a period because of the terrorism going on, it had a knock on effect for the Kenyan economy. And agriculture in Kenya is frequently very low carbon intensive and often organic with subsistence farming using few vehicles.

More energy is being used by people in developing economies who want air conditioning and fridges and why should we deny them the luxuries we take for granted? Far better to fund research into renewable power and ensure that China and African nations have those immediately rather than go through the fossil fuel period we have been through.