city centres, housing crisis and empty units

[TheGoddessAthena]

Just back from an afternoon out in a small Scottish city (Perth). Lots and lots of empty units of all sizes in the city centre, as there are everywhere. Local to me there is a large unit which used to be Peacocks, another which was M&Co which are both empty, and another large TOFS which is apparently closing shortly. Mostly all older buildings which have always been commercial on the ground floor with residential above.

So here's my plan. Once a shop unit has sat empty for 12 months, with no interest in subdividing or reopening as a shop, planning permission for change of use to residential is granted automatically. Certain provisos about not changing footprint or roofline, but permission to change big shop windows, add new doorways. Turn them into flats.

Am I missing something here?

Who’s paying for that then?

Any developer who fancies buying up the empty shop units.

I cant see many developers being interested in having a couple of flats in the middle of a town centre high street. Also who would want to live there?

Loads of people live in city centres.

OP - the main issue with your suggestion is that these flats will only be suitable for singles/couples, thereby restricting their turnover rate. The housing crisis is partly due to the fact that there isn’t the variety of homes available that suit the different needs of people looking for accommodation . However, I dont think its a bad idea.

But it's not just a couple of flats. There are thousands of these empty units. As fo who would want to live there - loads of people. Young professionals who work nearby. Downsizers. Students. Single people who want the buzz of a social life close by.

Your plan would see the high street shrink even further.

Also, the more people living in city centres, the more services you need such as doctors, schools etc. These are not often found in city centres or even close to them. So then you need public transport etc.
Plus, we need businesses in city centres if we want them to thrive.Swapping an income generating business for a non “profit” accommodation has its drawbacks too.

No because that plays into the develops hands, it’s common to let properties rot until they get permission to do what they want.

It would be better imo if they were fined for empty properties. Commercial property values are based on previous rent not current rent (eg zero for empty properties) so we should fine landlords the rent they’re asking for after 6 months. It would force them to drop rents to the actual market rate.

You’d also need to think about what type of business the flats would be near to or next to. Some businesses would not be suitable for living nearby.

I’m a bit confused by the post- especially the ending of “am I missing something here?”

you don’t sound like a developer who wants to do it so what’s your interest? Your post has this strange conspiracy vibe to it. What could be conspiratorial at making unused retail residential? Happens all the time

This is oversimplified, and I've never been to Perth, but broadly speaking we do need to think about what we're going to do with empty lots in areas that were previously retail. The pre internet shopping age isn't coming back.

The sight you have decribed is the same in every other small high street and it has been for years. So yes you are missing something. It just not that simple unfortunatley. Issues include cost of conversion to residential use, complexities of sites eg acess, parking, maybe listed building issues, consideration of the rest of the building ownership and use which may still be commercial uses and of course crucially demand. There is just isnt the demand and sufficient financial return for developers to do this in eg Perth.

These issues can be overcome and in my line of work I've seen a few smaller scale sucessful examples but also many which never got off the ground due to som of the issue above.

Exactly - an old shop in my local town has already been turned into flats. Its a large building, right opposite Wetherspoons. I do know someone who lives there who says its awful. Noise from the pub, homeless sleeping in the doorway, police outside all the time dealing with the dodgy folk who hang around that area. Not somewhere that young professionals or students would want to live, despite them being newly refurbished flats in a nice listed building in the town centre.

I appreciate that there may be increased demand for dentists, doctors, schools etc in city centres if loads of people move in. And no, I wouldn't want to live next to a nightclub or late night kebab shop.

But sad as it is, the days of large retail units on town high streets have gone. All the companies which had those sorts of stores outside large cities like Woolies, BHS, Littlewoods, M&Co, John Menzies, Wilkinson's, Debenhams, TopShop - gone. These shops will not be let to another retailer, however cheap the rent, because nobody wants those large units any more. Some could be subdivided.

Surely if you removed some of the restrictions around reclassifying a former BHS which has been empty since 2015 as residential, that swings the budget concerns in favour of redevelopment?

Something needs to be done because many of our town centres are looking derelict and run down.

But it’s very often cheaper and more efficient to demolish the units and build from the ground up.

these aren’t empty because of some planning difficulties - they’re empty because no one is interested in buying the land right now.

I think one of the reasons such conversions are unattractive to developers is the need to have these commercial properties meet modern residential building standards, whilst, in some cases, retaining their period features , at least on the exterior.
I know a developer who has done similar with older buildings which had been turned into offices; turning them back to residential use was basically back to brick on the inside, while maintaining the appearance of windows, doors, railings etc. Won’t be doing it again unless the town planners get a bit more realistic about what they are trying to achieve.

Come to Swansea - Topshop is now flats, Woolworths is now a mixed-use biophilic building which includes accommodation, Market Lofts is above an old greetings card shop, BHS is our new central library and council service centre... I could go on... there's something like 150 new homes coming (all apartment living, mainly one and two beds which is what is needed) in the centre of the city, funded by Welsh Government's Transforming Towns Placemaking scheme and some money from the Swansea Bay City Deal redevelopment initiative. To be fair to the council they have really listened to what people here want and need. And they're applying for global biophilic city status which strengthens the role of nature in urban life. It does feel like I have lived in a building site for the last two years, but things are really coming to fruition now. Disclaimer: I do NOT work for the council! But credit where it is due frankly.

Yes retrofitting - particularly to fire safety standard- is really expensive

This. Developers have a much easier time building on greenfield or open/empty space. It's often more expensive to adapt an existing building (tearing out walls, installing new wiring and plumbing, gas connections, changing load tolerances and adding windows or ceilings, heating, ventilation) than it is to build new, and when you clear brownfield sites you have the added cost of disposing of all the crap you've taken out of the site before you can even start building.

Is this prompted by the bbc article on property guardians?? People clearly can set up in these places so it seems reasonable to me.

I think the scale of the crisis should justify something along the lines you suggest, yes. Shame we don’t live in a time or country that cares about plebs.

Love your username op.😊 Thanks for the olives!

Sorry, was on Sky. Knew I’d seen it somewhere… https://news.sky.com/story/money-live-personal-finance-consumer-sky-news-latest-13040934

Am I missing something here?

Yes. There's no room for properly developers to make any money from it.

Also if you increase the supply of housing then it will cause rents to fall.

Why change a system that has worked for (checks notes) 47 years ?

I imagine it would be expensive to retrofit houses into an old BHS. And in many towns it's the case where the empty unit is on the ground level, with flats above already occupied. So it's not as easy as demolish the whole building and build new.

So what happens to all the empty shop units - they just sit empty? It doesn't seem as much of an issue in large cities, but small cities and towns are just depressing these days.

Yes, there is a bit of this happening where I live

But often, builders don't want the trouble of turning the site into residential property.

Because it isn't working. There is a housing crisis.