city centres, housing crisis and empty units

[TheGoddessAthena]

Just back from an afternoon out in a small Scottish city (Perth). Lots and lots of empty units of all sizes in the city centre, as there are everywhere. Local to me there is a large unit which used to be Peacocks, another which was M&Co which are both empty, and another large TOFS which is apparently closing shortly. Mostly all older buildings which have always been commercial on the ground floor with residential above.

So here's my plan. Once a shop unit has sat empty for 12 months, with no interest in subdividing or reopening as a shop, planning permission for change of use to residential is granted automatically. Certain provisos about not changing footprint or roofline, but permission to change big shop windows, add new doorways. Turn them into flats.

Am I missing something here?

You realise that "the market" is designed to punt as many "city living" type apartments and flats, because they maximise the person/area/price relationship to make sure the developers make their money.

Houses and familiy spaces are very unpopular as they can half or even quarter the person/area/price dynamic.

I think people only tend to think of housing with a British mindset, when we lived in Copenhagen and rented we looked at several 3 and4 bed family flats that were in a very central area and extremely nice indeed ( and big) many on 2 and 3 floors. I certainly don’t think small families and couples here would have turned their nose up at them - at the right price of course!

There's loads of it happening in Bristol OP. Our very large former Debenhams for example will be demolished and replaced with a 28 storey tower block of flats. Loads of residential flats have already been built within the main shopping quarter and a former flag ship shopping gallery will also be demolished for housing. Town centres are dead (ours has almost become a Zombie zone) and I can't see shops ever reviving. Basically most of Bristol's city centre shopping quarter will eventually be residential.

We were taught by Thatcher that owning a home is not a right, but a privilege.We were also taught that if you can't make money out of it (housing, water, telecoms, health) then it's not worth doing.

Same in Glasgow, @ginasevern , there is lots of revelopment going on, the old M&S in Sauchiehall Street was demolished and new housing going up in its place. And by the sounds of it, Swansea is doing well too.

It seems to be the smaller towns which are suffering, places with less demand for housing.

I wonder why not more is done about empty houses, tbh.

There are lots near me. There are 3 large (eg 5 bed) empty houses near me that have been empty for years - running into decades.

When there are as many empty houses as there are that no one is taking responsibility for/haven't been maintained and, the last time I looked, there were at least as many empty houses as there are people needing houses, why is this not addressed?

The houses I mentioned above have been empty since the 90s. Whose responsibility are they? Who owns them if the owners died and had no one to leave them to?

I would rather see these houses restored to family homes and sold than see poor quality new housing estates promised.

As much as anything, these houses ae dangerous and accessible to anyone who might have need to use an empty house.

I think some councils have a person whose job it is to deal with empty housing stock, you can report an empty property and they will try to establish who owns it, and bring it into council housing stock, or force them to sell it.

I wonder why not more is done about empty houses, tbh

The more housing that is available, the less you can charge for it.

Now add that to the sum of knowledge and ask yourself why the UK struggles to build 3 houses these days, when in the 1920s-1930s it managed to build well over 3 million.

If you treat housing as a commodity, rather than a basic necessity, this is where you end up. (See also: health, education)

A large old pub has been converted into nice flats in the town centre where I live. The photos on Rightmove were lovely.

Yes I guess that's the answer. The housing situation in Bristol is dire. Basically the city is full to bursting and almost as expensive as London.

Build houses from new and you can recover the VAT. Convert an existing property and you can’t.

The other issue with city centre living is lack of outside space. It’s not entirely impossible but it probably would be for the sort of buildings you are describing OP. That makes flat -living unattractive for many people, especially families with young children.

Flats are great - I live in one. I also lived in one in a city centre for many years. But they are nowhere near as widely appealing as even the smallest terrace house.

Councils need to buy back their city centre builds and then they can charge realistic rents to keep the units full and popular to bring in people to the centre which will also encourage people to want to live in the city centre flats.

Rich landlords would rather let something sit empty than give discounts. Also because they get relief for 6 months there is no fast incentive.

I.might have to book a day's AL then and go around collecting info!

Thee are so many of them!

I live on a high street in an old converted Barclays Bank . It’s like living in an office block . Yeah the building is sound but the floors are just the old wooden floors and the noise from the flats isn’t great . The water systems are mega old and not suitable for numerous amounts of dwellings . I’m moving after 8 years . The traffic is terrible , the high street is noisy and it’s been took over by foreign shops now , 10 of them now in one high street .
Since I’ve been looking for a new place to rent I’ve discovered everything is being turned into hmos . I coul get a room for £500 a month . Imagine how much these people are making turning a 3 bed family home into an hmo !!! So actually turning all the old units into HMOs isn’t really a new plan it’s happening here everywhere . Office blocks everywhere are becoming flats . It’s a shame a really bloody shame coz there will be no family homes left soon .

They’re kind of doing this in Manchester. Old mills are converted to residential. Other buildings are demolished and new tower blocks built. In 1990 only 500 people lived in the city centre, now it’s over 100,000.

The council are definitely aiming to get a lot of coliving flat type shares both for workers and students. The added bonus being that it reduces demand for HMOs in the residential outskirts and hopefully more of the housing stock there can go back to family use.

Dd lives in one of the big tower blocks in Manchester. It’s fab for her, she’s young and she’s right in the middle of the city. I visited her today and you can walk from her flat to Selfridges in 15 mins. She has a great lifestyle for her stage of life. But I do agree the issues like lack of outside space (not even any good parks nearby), zero parking, even moving in and out is a nightmare. Costs me a fortune in the NCP if I visit by car.

Have you been in Glasgow recently?

Easy change for the Chancellor.

Yep - and it’s a real biggie here as to why 40 years down the line we gave the situation we do .

I must admit I dont really understand that.Didnt Thatcher introduce the right to buy council houses?

Yes. She also forbade councils from building new houses to replace them. Because all the Tory landlords were upset that they were unable to fleece the public with private accommodation. This meant councils had to discharge their statutory duty to provide social housing by paying private rents to .... Thatchers mates.

If you've been paying attention, you will now start to see why alleviating the housing "crisis" doesn't suit landlords and landowners. And they ultimately chose your government.

So many people are still under the impression that we live in a democracy. Look up the old BBC program ‘The Century of the Self’ to discover that it’s all about marketing: and since neoliberalism, marketing is considered an art form in itself and does not require a good product at the end of it. Then you wonder where outright scams come from and so much of modern life is a scam. Democracy requires information: yet this market economy is built on lies.