Benefits explosion- where will it end?

[TheBlueKoala]

"PIP benefits explosion: Anxiety and depression handouts have nearly TRIPLED to £4.3bn since Covid - with autism and ADHD bill hitting £2.2bn and 'back pain' £1.6bn"

Something is not right here. When I have written before on here telling about people I know who claim for anxiety although they have rich social lives (funded by 440£ extra per month from PIP) I've had many people telling me that it's not possible etc. It sure is. How many 16 year olds are claiming PIP for anxiety?

Instead of benefits why not pay for therapy- invest massively in the NHS mental health support so that people with anxiety, adhd and autism can see a therapist regularly to help them. This would make a difference for tje individual and the society. Throwing out money won't.

AINBU- I agree with about
AIBU- No, extra money is always useful

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15510221/PIP-benefits-anxiety-depression-austism-ADHD-pain-Covid-Labour.html

I don't think it is that east to get is it? Unless you have first hand experience it's just hearsay surely?

My son gets pip..but he has been in a SEN school since has was 8. That's pretty uncommon surely?

My friend has been out of work since redundancy in October. Only just applied for UC I Jan. Turned down with zero savings.

Eldest son was under mental health team, 150mg of stertraline, not worked or done anything at all for two years due to MH and got zero points for pip.

From personal experience it's not easy to get PIP. Also my son who does get pip has got three diagnosis from a young child and was on DLA. Ie over a decade of evidence of quite severe needs.

It is very odd if it is renewed every year, she isn't as severe as she used to be and she is still getting the same rate or even getting it at all.

SD is not a nightmare at all. She's actually extremely easy for a teenager and largely self-sufficient.

Their younger child is also disabled and I would assume they claim for him too, and from what I hear, he is indeed a nightmare and does have quite significant needs so I think that one is fair enough. I'm only going on what SD tells me though and what 16 yo doesn't find their little brother annoying?

I know this is classed as anecdotal but this is my lived experience. Where I work there are two men whose partners both claim PIP and both have lied and faked it to get this benefit, they are also on various other benefits too.

Neither women work nor have they ever worked.
One has one child which she claims she is a single parent for (her partner lives with her and works full time, has a very well paid position) and the other has three children again claims she is a single parent (isn't and again her partner lives with them although he is not the father of two of the kids).

The first woman has parent whom have never worked. They each have various now adult children who have tread the same path - claimed benefits all their lives and not had a job once.
They boast about it and when one got a winter fuel payment last year and the other didn't qualify it kicked off.

They know the system and there are groups even on Facebook that coach people what to write, say and do.

The money that goes through these households is off the charts.

There is no way that they would ever be able to find a job that paid that well.

That is two that I know about. So I doubt the number of false claimants is as small unfortunately as you think.

True. There’s a limit to what workers will be able to provide.

LCWRA is for people who have limited capability to work. The amount job seekers get is not enough to live on.
Why would someone who is too unwell to work not get extra money? They cant work so need money to pay their bills and afford to eat and clothes themselves.
Cutting their money wont make them better and fit to work and it wont make a job that they could do appear.
A lot of people on LCWRA for mental health are under CMHT and already in therapy. They can not do an additional one from the job centre so they keep their money.
Cutting their money will make them more ill.

Unfortunately PIP is a cash generator so I am not convinced that many claims are genuine. You just need to know what to say. Soon the whole system will collapse as it has become
totally unaffordable and it is frustrating to look
at how much tax you pay and what money your are then have left, compared to those sitting ant home milking the system. I guess it is very hard to assess who is genuine and who isn’t , especially for anxiety? I hope the government will sort it out sooner rather than later. I think everyone on benefits should be doing Community jobs so that they basically get paid for their work like everyone else. Many people with mental health conditions would benefit from a more structured life, connections, something to do. And that would be fairer to those funding the system.

But if autism is the reason that they are claiming limited capacity to work and that’s a lifelong unchanging brain difference then does the public have to support that person claiming benefits forever? At the severe end of the spectrum with high needs then I guess yes (same as for physical health) but if they could be supported to work in some capacity with reasonable adjustments then that’s what should happen and there should be some kind of programme/ signposting at the point of the LCWRA process to ensure people have given the best opportunity and not written off.

I’ve name changed for this for obvious reasons.

Ds1 (31) has ADHD. He works full time in a responsible and reasonably senior role and doesn’t claim any benefits. I’m sure any colleagues would be shocked if he suggested he might be eligible. However no one (except his dad and I) see what the rest of his life looks like. Perfectly synchronised medication to ensure his working day is covered - difficult if he has to work away or a longer day. His absolute mental exhaustion when he is home. Using his annual leave as days off when he is completely overloaded.

He still lives at home and I cook all his meals, do his washing and everything else for him so that he can get through the week. Once I’m no longer able to this for him I can see him having to work part time and at this point he may need PIP and I hope it will be there for him.

His two brothers are autistic. Both are the high functioning, geeky type that are doing well in careers in IT. They are both completely independent and currently don’t need extra help. They will always look out for their brother and help him where necessary.

It’s difficult to tell who needs the help and who doesn’t and I feel it’s better that someone who doesn’t really need it gets it than people who depend on it don’t.

Everyone? Or just those who don't appear to be genuine?

You dont just need to know what to say
You also need evidence and I don't just mean going to your Gp type evidence
I mean proper evidence .

It's not benefits bashing to ask where the money is going to come from. It's unsustainable.

I’m not suggesting they get their benefits cut whilst engaging actively in treatment to get better.

If they are under a CMHT and getting treatment then hopefully we can expect them to get better so social care and health need to be more joined up about the time frame and scope for expected improvements to set a realistic review date.

40% of UC claimants apparently have LCWRA or LCW. That’s a huge amount of people massively dwarfing PIP claims. I don’t know how many of those are for MH but there’s no way they are all under 2nd care and I bet loads are not getting help with their MH so my idea was to see if we can target those people with a helpful offer. I actually don’t know why people are getting so offended.

Not when there is a shrinking tax payer base.

The DWP want to downplay it more than anyone. How anyone can think their figures mean anything is beyond me!

The last I saw (a while ago, I must admit) was that it was a figure estimated at over £6billion in overall fraudulent benefit claims.
But nobody cheats the benefits system, do they? 😂

Are people really that clueless to what’s going on? Society is going to collapse soon with all the ADHD, Autism, anxiety diagnosis and the subsequent PIP claims. We cannot keep going on like this.

I broke three large bones in my leg. I had to have an operation to pin it back together. The dwp told me I was fit to work when I couldn't walk - that's why appealed their decision. I wasn't offered physio, probably because the break was so complex I wouldn't have been able to participate in it - because I was off my feet for the first three months

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make here to be honest - you don't get offered group therapy by the dwp. Neither do you get offered physio - that's offered by the local health board

The reason I applied for lcwra wasn't simply because of the money - it was because I went through the process of trying to get lwcra and I was told I was fit to work when I literally couldn't stand up

You don't know what my position is. I got disability benefits for a very short time period because of an accident. I had actually just been offered a job when I broke my leg, obviously couldn't take it up. Your comments aren't helpful

And it's not easy to be asked questions about suicide - particularly when you've lost someone that way - which I have. It's a tough assessment to go through

Because it should be left for those that are ill to decide if they need help or not...

I tend to ignore the opinions of posters on here who think they understand the ins and outs of other people's conditions and claims and can therefore say they do/don't deserve it.

My husband is the only person in the world that I don't mask or try to hide how much I'm struggling from. Everyone else gets a performance from me to some extent, so the only person with any kind of qualification or right to say I'm faking would be my husband - but I promise you, many outsiders would look at my situation and say I don't deserve enhanced PIP, LCWRA etc.

What's really disheartening on this thread is seeing people play the pick me dance to try and prove they're the "good disabled person". Work if you can, be proud of the fact that you work, but don't dance around for the praise from able bodied people to pat you on the head and say "well done for working, you're a good example". Have some self respect (and recognise that different disabilities affect different people in different ways).

While I am sure autism etc is now much better diagnosed I do wonder whether some modern medicines or chemicals in the environment are causing an effect on brain development. For instance it was years before TPTB admitted that valproate medicines given to pregnant women caused birth defects - and autism - and it seems to be only in the last couple of years that men taking them are advised not to if planning to father a child.
Maybe other mood stabilising drugs subtly change a foetus's brain development too in ways which are not obvious until the child is several months old?

Some people will always be under secondary care as they have severe illness and have the depot. GPs cant deliver that.
CMHT is there to get people through an episode of illness or manage someone with severe lifelong illness that will never be cured. They are not there to get people back to work.
Recovering from an episode of mental illness is not linear and it is not really fair to expect someone to be better in a certain time frame. It is not like a broken bone.
I am not under CMHT as there is no more help. I go back under the crisis team if I am acutely unwell.

Very well said.

The fact that privately owned Capita and Atos who carry out the benefits assessments have been fined due to reports stating the assessors have been imsensitive and untruthful might have a hand in the number of increased cases being awarded.
I was myself aghast at the lies (often blatant ones) being told by the assessors when I have claimed.
I thought this country was more fair than that and I conflated them somewhat with other public services (that admittedly have their issues).
I got asked by an assessor in these exact words:
'What stopped you killing yourself last time?'
I was met with coldness and indifference and no empathy.

So how old is DS and how come you are doing the interview if he’s of working age? Do you anticipate that at any point in his life he will ever be able to work and what would need to change for that to come about? Or is he excused work forever?

Because you don't seem to understand how mental health affects some people. Firstly - not everyone who has mental health issues are under the care of a community mental health team. They need to deal with people on a priority needs basis. Resources

And some people don't get better. Depression and other mental health disorders can be managed for some people - they live with it - they don't go to CBT or group therapy and magically get better

Very noble. But where is the money going to come from to support all the people who need help? It's all very well taking the high ground until the bills need to be paid.

Not one person who thinks the system is not broken has come up with an answer to where the money is going to come from in nation with a shrinking tax payer base.

What is your solution?