DS joining in being horrible to another child

[Forree]

AIBU to have no idea what to do?
ds is 12, in year 8 at a sen school that is mainly for semh, he has adhd and asd.
Yesterday he got added to a school group chat and joined a group call with two boys from his school,
one of the boys was message a girl from school saying "do you want to kiss me on the lips?" And things like that but was screen sharing it to the group call. DS screenshotted these messages and sent them to the group chat.
to me this is bullying, they trying to embarrass/humiliate this girl for entertainment and DS has joined in. They also shared a photo of another girl and were saying "ew I'm gunna be sick"
I lost my shit when I heard that because he knows better than to be treating anyone like this.
Ive tried talking to him, he doesn't seem to think it's a big deal although he did understand that the girl would be upset by this. I've blocked WhatsApp on his phone.
his whole attitude recently has not been very nice, he's previously always been a very empathetic caring boy I have no idea what has gotten into him. He swore at his younger brothers friend the other day and is rude and mean to me sometimes now too.
How do I get him to be nicer and to think his actions through?? I'm worried he's going to end up being horrible if he carries on like this!

I'd take the phone away. Doesn't sound like he's mature enough, and it's not going to bring anything positive if that's the interactions happening.

Currently he has it but with everything other than Netflix blocked, because he gets a taxi to school by himself in a bit worried to take it away completely.
its a shame because when he is just talking to his friends on there it's all innocent enough and just about Minecraft and stuff like that, I don't want him to be isolated from his friends (as it's a sen school they don't live locally) but yes you are right he doesn't seem mature enough for the responsibility of a phone

This is why kids that age shouldn’t have smart phones.

He's 12 and trying to establish himself in the pecking order at school. His sen issues may make realising that others barriers/limits of behaviour are not as high as his difficult.

Plus he's starting to grow into a young man. There are reasons why the Jewish faith has a bar mitzvah ceremony at. It's a time of pushing boundaries and exploring the world independently... sadly some, boys in particular, are poor at this.

Plus boys and men are often vile to each other. Remember the scene in the film Stand by Me where the 12 year old boys are vile about each others mum. This continues through male life, saying things about each other that would not be acceptable unless said by a friend. Your son needs to remember that this behaviour doesn't transfer to women, even close female friends I have don't understand why we talk to each other this way.

My DD is also in specialist provision and there have been lots of issues with WhatsApp groups etc. I think because by definition all the kids have social and communication difficulties they find online interaction even more tricky. I spent a lot of time talking about group chats, what was ok, what wasn’t, stepping away from drama, not being dragged into things. Two years later and she’s very good at managing her online presence, she needed a lot of support to get there though and spells of taking time out from her phone. I think it’s worth putting in the work now rather than waiting til he’s older and still doesn’t have the skills but is more independent. For my DD it wasn’t simply a case of maturity, it’s a skill issue that she would need to learn at whatever age.

Good post from @Jellycatspyjamas. This is not uncommon behaviour OP, rather than just taking the phone away it's really important to work on this together and help him understand inappropriate online behaviour and interactions.

Get him a dumb phone for school travel. He is not mature enough for a smart phone or social media and he has just proved that to you.

I do agree it's difficult because his dad (doesn't live with us) says take away the phone completely, whilst im erring on the side of, he needs to learn how to manage things like phones, group chats etc as one day he'll be old enough that I can't stop him. Hard because of anything goes wrong it's of course my fault for letting him have the phone.
bjt phone with monitoring and restrictions does provide more opportunities for this kind of horrible behaviour but on the other hand provides 6 for me to help him and see socially where he's lacking in skills...

Why don't you buy him an old phone that just calls and texts?

At 12 i’d get him a brick phone for another couple of years. Or give him another chance and heavily monitor, under condition the phone goes if happens again.

At 12 he shouldn’t be on WhatsApp anyway.

He can’t cope and isn’t mature enough to have a smart phone. You are putting him at risk by saying that he needs it. He doesn’t. Give him a phone that only calls and texts. If he sends something inappropriate directly to one of the girls, your problem will get a whole lot worse.

As it is at the moment his phone is essentially a brick phone because he has no access to anything other than calls and texts and Netflix. And life 360 so I can see where he is for traveling to school or the odd occasion he goes to the shop alone. I can stop him from being able to download apps without approval and he's never had access to the internet browsing on it. He did have WhatsApp but at the moment it's blocked and will be I guess until he can show he's responsible enough for it. He does have a px at his dad's house with no restrictions but I can't do anything about that, I've tried!

If he gets a taxi to school he doesn’t need a phone. I’d remove it and say he can have it back when he’s learnt how to behave!

Have you had conversations about using smart phones/the internet and about online safety and thinking twice about what we post and send etc?

Any child who has access to the internet and a smart phone should be sat down, talked to and shown age appropriate videos on the subject, these are easily accessible on sites like NSPCC.

If he needs a phone to call and text then you get him a very basic one that all they do does that!

children with adhd and ASD also need a LOT more parenting and rules and also sticking to them!! You need to make it clear his behavior is NOT acceptable and doing things like taking his phone off him is the barest basics so it’s very clear why he’s being a little shit!! Lack of parenting and putting your foot down and meaning it!

He needs to earn the phone back. He can spend his non-Netflixed up Taxi rides thinking about what he didn

Take the smart phone away completely, you can get him a brick phone to take to school for emergencies and get an air tag for his bag or shoes so you can see he’s arrived safely on your tracking. In my opinion 12 year olds should just not have smart phones it’s just a recipe for bad news. Yes it will be hard to enforce especially when all the kids have them but he will benefit in the long run. He has plenty of time to be in WhatsApp groups when he’s older.

So because he needs to learn, is the girl just collateral damage?
If you want to teach him that his behaviour was unacceptable, you need to back it up with action.
If you are convinced he needs a phone during travel time you could set it to downtime outside of travel time. Or go old school and give it to him when the taxi arrives in the morning and remove it when he gets home.

No obviously not which is why I'm so angry with him and he's in trouble!
But the phone isn't the whole issue- it's how he's acting in general around other kids and not thinking for himself and going along with whatever others are doing. Which I don't know how to get him to understand about

Just wanted to say, I wish my bullies’ parents were like you. You’re a wonderful mother

Jesus Christ, he's always had consequences and rules and I'm literally posting on here for advice on what to do not ignoring it and letting him get away with it! He's never been one to be horrible or disrespectful or get into fights and dramas previously but there is a lot of this going on at his current school because by definition the kids all have social communication difficulties so it's hard to navigate! There's been issues within school also where he's joining in with behaviour that he shouldn't be and then also issues where he's been subjected to unkind behaviour also.
im not very happy with him at all atm but he isn't a little shit and he does have autism and delays socially so it is more complicated than him just being a little shit and I want to deal with the root cause not just a punishment I want him to understand how and why to treat people kindly, not just trying not to get punished!

It’s easy to unblock things. You need to take his phone off him. Does he have any other devices like a laptop or tablet?

As you said, your son is a bully and a misogynist one at that.

Id get him one of the old brick phones, no access to anything smart. Silly boy, you sound like a bloody good mum!

he has a laptop that he can only use in the living room that he plays Minecraft on.
he doesn't have a tablet.
Hes not misogynistic I have tried my best to always educate him on these things. He is however trying to fit in by acting in a way that is not acceptable, but the situation isn't as simple as you seem to think- the girls in question have also been the instigators of horrible behaviour too, and the boys towards
each other also. It's a lot of back and forth drama between all of them, because they are all pre-teens with social communication delays and/or semh difficulties, but my concern is my sons behaviour obviously which I don't think is ok.