DS joining in being horrible to another child

[Forree]

AIBU to have no idea what to do?
ds is 12, in year 8 at a sen school that is mainly for semh, he has adhd and asd.
Yesterday he got added to a school group chat and joined a group call with two boys from his school,
one of the boys was message a girl from school saying "do you want to kiss me on the lips?" And things like that but was screen sharing it to the group call. DS screenshotted these messages and sent them to the group chat.
to me this is bullying, they trying to embarrass/humiliate this girl for entertainment and DS has joined in. They also shared a photo of another girl and were saying "ew I'm gunna be sick"
I lost my shit when I heard that because he knows better than to be treating anyone like this.
Ive tried talking to him, he doesn't seem to think it's a big deal although he did understand that the girl would be upset by this. I've blocked WhatsApp on his phone.
his whole attitude recently has not been very nice, he's previously always been a very empathetic caring boy I have no idea what has gotten into him. He swore at his younger brothers friend the other day and is rude and mean to me sometimes now too.
How do I get him to be nicer and to think his actions through?? I'm worried he's going to end up being horrible if he carries on like this!

I'd take the phone away. To earn it back, you need to go through some books and films with him about bullying in general. My son is also in a special educational needs unit at school, and I've had to do this with him. We watched educational films about bullying, and read books about bullying, and also about being respectful to women. He has to acknowledge that his behaviour was wrong before he can earn his privileges back. I don't mean an apology necessarily, I mean the words "I was wrong". He could even write it down. He needs to be made to take accountability and responsibility for his behaviour, and understand the devastating effect that bullying can have on others.

Take the bloody phone away.

Fgs.

Books and films are a good idea I'll look into some that hopefully will help get the message across.
taking the phone seems to be unanimous so I will do that, I think he needs the separation/space away from the hype of all these group chats for him to understand what I'm trying to tell him because it does seem that he thinks if other people are doing something then it's ok.

Nice, so your DS thinks it’s okay to bully people because of some perceived flaw? Ugly girls deserve what they get is what I’m getting from this post

he’s already horrible if he understands that his actions are hurtful but feels no remorse

Where did you get that "ugly girls get what they get" from ??
he's in a lot of trouble for making fun of how someone looks, he doesn't get on with this girl and she has been the cause of a lot of nasty behaviour towards others herself and a lot
od physical violence towards the other kids at school but he has been told that he can't make fun of how someone looks, it's not acceptable and he can say he doesn't like her because of things she's done but absolutely cannot make fun of someone's appearance!
Well I'm not sure he does understand, that's the problem! He understands on a surface level because I've told him- but I'm not sure he truly understands on a deeper level than just parroting back what I've said. When I've asked him how he would feel if it was done to him he said he wouldn't care- and I believe that because he's oblivious to things like this when they happen to him half the time.

You might find some helpful resources in the Mayor of London's "Say Maaate to a Mate" campaign. Its aimed at secondary school and young men as part of the drive against VAGW and is very clear that it starts with words. There are some videos and some activities for secondary school classes that would work as well one on one. https://www.london.gov.uk/maaate

I had girls so a bit different (it was bitching rather than sexual inuendo but equally painful). They knew that their phones were monitored and anything untoward led to the smart phone being swapped for an old fashioned brick (aka the punishment phone).

it kind of does sound as though you are treating the girl as collateral damage.

Disabled apps or not, the phone needs to be taken off him until he understands that she is a person with feelings.

What is your plan to make him understand this?

I know you said the phone isn’t the only issue and it’s behaviour in general but I bet the phone is the root cause of the behaviour too. No 12 year old is emotionally reslliliant and mature enough for the world of social media and messaging. It’s setting him up to fail by allowing him to try and navigate it at this age.

I agree with others, give him a basic none smart phone and wait until he is much older to reintroduce the other one.

Im sorry but all of this 'he cant cope, hes not mature enough' stuff is rubbish. Hes a 12 year old boy. The majority of them are horrible. This behaviour is not acceptable but by no means unusual. My DS is 13 and attends a SEN school.. he has whatsaap but only ever uses it for voice notes to his friends as he is severely dyslexic so doesnt type/text etc. Over the last year or so he has been added to multiple group chats with lots of different friends, from school, from his old mainstream school, from outside of school, from his football team etc. I monitor his phone closely and see alot of this. Its nasty, but normal, crappy teenage boy behaviour. I simply exit him from these groups.
My friend has 2 teenage girls and they are even worse!!! The group chats make me blush!!! Have a word, tell him its not acceptable and that you will be closely monitoring his phone, randomly for a few weeks to check he can be trusted. Make him aware of the consequences of his conversations getting found out and leave it at that for a while.

It’s nasty but normal. Ffs, be a parent.

How does it sound like that!? The whole reason he's in trouble is because I don't think it's ok for him to have treated the girl like this and joined in with what was happening. I have told him that he needs to understand that she is a person with feelings, that it is bullying behaviour and nasty, I've made him tell me how he thinks she is feeling, and why. He wasn't the instigator, but he joined in and hes under absolutely no illusion that it's acceptable behaviour because he has been told in plain terms that there's no fucking way he is to treat anyone in a way that will make the feel bad as he has no right to do so.

Exiting from the groups isn’t really good enough when the damage is done and they’ve seen awful videos/abusive language and behaviour from their peers.

It’s a shame that you’ve normalised this in your own head as actually the kind of content in these WhatsApp groups isn’t necessary and if children (which is what 12 year olds are) didn’t have access to them the problem wouldn’t be there.

I am a parent. I could be the world's best parent. Or the world's worst. Neither matters because neither changes the fact that the behaviour is very common in teenagers.
Have you read something in my post that suggests I think its okay? Or that nothing should be done?

you being wishy washy about letting him have netflix on his phone?

he needs to understand.

So again: how are you going to do that?

A 12 year old does not need a smart phone.

I would remove all tech until he earns it back through understanding how vile his mysogynistic bullying is.

He doesn't have his phone currently.
But he is in a taxi for quite a while and has asd and the routine is watching a particular show in the taxi and it's not as simple as just switching it up I need him to go to school and our morning routine has to be the same every day in order for that to happen! If it ends up that he has his phone in the taxi it will be locked down completely so he can't do anything else on it. Phones get handed into school every morning.
im not being wishy washy he has no access to tech at all right now because he is in trouble!
im trying, he also goes to a neurodivergent social club in the hopes to learn some positive social skills.
i dont know exactly how im going to have him understand- so far i will find some relevant movies about bullying and tv shows to watch together, i will have him look at that say mate to a mate campaign, I've spoken to him about it, I can talk to school about it also as it seems to be a problem with multiple kids, they have a lot of things to help education psychology, ELSA etc because he's at a special school.
i don't know what you want me to do but just punishment won't work- he also needs to learn

A lot of posters not understanding that autism is a social communication disorder- yes I'm angry at him and he is in trouble HOWEVER he doesn't understand in the same way a neurotypical child would. In the same way that he is vulnerable because he doesn't understand when bullying is happening to him , he doesn't full grasp the situation that he was joining in with. I'm not saying autism is an excuse because it's not- I'm saying it makes it more complicated and not as simple as he's an evil misogynistic bully. Social interactions for him really are quite surface level, he is doing what he thinks he should because others are doing it. Doesn't mean I think it's acceptable at all because I don't.

Would 100% take it away and not even consider giving it back until he’s in a completely different developmental stage. If he needs a phone get him a simple one, and I’d be making sure he had no camera and telling him why. 12yos should not have smartphones, and children with SEN even more so.

All the more reason he shouldn’t be on WhatsApp.

OP, you need to take his phone off him. Get him a basic one if he needs to phone/text regarding transport. Take it off him the minute he is home.

There should be no Netflix or similar for him at the moment.

Mine walked to and from school so had no need for any kind of phone. When they transgressed the phone was gone - for days when necessary. With boys of that age you need to give clear consequences: behave like that, and you lose your phone. Simple as that. They also need to know that you will monitor it going forward when you decide he’s old enough and responsible enough to have it back.