To think people over 80 should not drive

[TorridAntelope]

I don't care how bright and sparky they are, the stats show they are dangerous

Not a blanket ban but something more than the current tick a box system of renewal. FIL was 85 and licence renewal came up. He had driven into his gate post 4x that year and I was concerned about both his eye sight and memory. He denied it all and said "my optician says I have perfect sight" but I suspected was a lie. I took him to the GP who agreed he had memory issues and referred him to memory clinic.
I pointed out he could not tick the box that said "no cognitive issues" and let the neighbours know. Sure enough we were rung a few weeks later by them to say he was getting in the car and trying to drive...no licence, no insurance,no MOT. I removed the car as that was a death waiting to happen....
The problem is that self reporting cognitive issues doesn't work as people with memory problems can't remember.
Perhaps a compulsory eye test where you have to actually show the certificate and some sort of reaction time test like in the theory test might be the way forward every 3 years once you are over 80?

We need to ban young men first, they statistically have more accidents. We do need better enforcement of driving licence and keys removal with some sort of testing past 80 of reactions but I know 90 year olds who are very competent drivers and unlike youngsters don’t take risks

I think the problem is that lots of people become very stubborn and less self aware into their older years. I don’t think there should be a blanket ban at 80 but there should be assessments. My dad was very realistic and quit driving without a struggle- he was possibly earlier than he needed to but he was conscious his reactions weren’t as good as they had been and he didnt want to become dangerous. It hasn’t curtailed his social life as he hasn’t been afraid to pay for taxis. I think people hold on because they don’t want to pay for taxis.

My parents are both over 80 and are perfectly safe drivers and fit and healthy. I don't agree with a cut off at 80 because everyone ages differently.

OP drops an ageist post then disappears.

Stats also show that under 25s are ‘dangerous’, causing more fatalities. Statistics are wonderful for presenting your argument. Individuals aren’t statistics.

And as every politician or salesman knows, statistics can be manipulated, and even believed, when they are blatantly made up on the spot.

My grandad was driving sensibly until 89, very steady and stuck to the speed limit, pootled round the local area.

Can you give us the link to such stats, OP? Which ones are you referring to exactly? Or are you just engaging in a spot of casualised ageism for fun? Changes in policy and law need hard, verifiable data or else it’s discriminatory. As others have pointed out, public transport can be atrocious outside of main cities. You just can’t go around banning people from driving.

Everyone should retake their test after the age of 80

Younger drivers who speed and casual drivers who drive huge cars that they’ve to climb into are the problem too.
Sadly, when older drivers die on the road they are usually in single vehicle crashes.
Maybe everyone should have a cognitive test every 10/15 years.

My dad is 83 and a much better driver than most people, including my children! We're all aware that could change at the drop of a hat, but at the moment he is perfectly capable of driving 1000s of miles a year. Bring in annual testing, but don't blanket ban based on age.

You have literally no idea.

If you haven't had to manage the demise of an elderly parent including cognitive decline, inability to process or make quick decisions and worsening eyesight, you are very lucky.

All the people who say things like this are in absolute denial about the realities of ultra -ageing. Those of us who've been through it, some of us with one parent after another, know differently.

It's the same if you say "I'm never going to let my kids put me in a home". It's refusing to face up to the fact that ultra ageing can make us vulnerable, dependent and unable to look after ourselves.

Sometimes taking the keys away is the only responsible action. No-one wants to do it and it is a horrible milestone in the process of decline that is extreme old age. But there will come a point where stopping driving is necessary for most people.

And those of you with parents in their 80s who wouldn't cope without the car - what is their plan for when that time comes? It's very, very hard for elderly people in villages without a car. But that's exactly why there needs to be a plan.

It's very human to hope for the best, but the Elderly Parents board is full of stories of parents who have refused to plan for old age and now the only option, often unrealistic, is for their offspring to look after them in their own home.

I don't agree with a blanket ban but equally, the current process is woefully inadequate.

If you are that concerned about stats, start the other end of the age scale and set a minimum age of 25 before provisional licenses are granted.

we need online and practical driving modules and you can only drive where your module says, eg local driving (within a mile of your house where you know the roads well). wider driving away from home module(s), rural module, city module, motorway module, night module, weather module etc and regular mini driving and reaction/firness tests every few years to make sure we are ok to continue. It would also allow young drivers to start slow near home in daylight and also progress - with a minimum time spent in ea h module like pilots have thwir hours recorded.

when she was still out and about my mum would maybe pass the health and local daytime driving ones but not the others so shed be restricted to what we have nearby - a handful of local corner shops, the doctor, dentist, dry cleaner and cafe.

she wouldn’t pass any now although she currently holds her full license and said the other day if she felt like it she could drive. No way she could. That car would be toast within 20 minutes.

the problem is people want more and more from government and want to spend less and less. so it will never happen. For example reform want to cut the civil service. that potentially means fewer dvla driving tests and fewer people doimg paperwork in the dvla si how could we do more wirh less people.

We need more not less and loopholes for the tax dodgers closed so everyome pays

This.

Our roads would be empty around here in that particular utopia, OP. We live in a seaside town and easily 50%+ of the population are retired.

I agree, but also don’t. I think rude boys in their souped up VWs are the most dangerous drivers I come across, but I regularly, and I mean daily, come across elderly drivers driving significantly below speed limit and endangering themselves and me. By significant I mean doing 20mph on a by-pass, not indicating and swerving as they drive. Me and DH call the ‘the Honda Jazz brigade’ (so many Honda Jazzes 😫)

Yes, I was thinking something similar about the feasibility of re-testing. I agree that a blanket ban doesn't make sense, but can you imagine the staff infrastructure upgrades that would be needed if everyone over 80 needed to be retested annually? It would probably solve unemployment completely.

And as for your module idea, can you imagine what the 15 minute cities conspiracy theorists would make of that - government curtailing your god given right to cause an accident further from home.

In London the most aggressive drivers seem to be 30-40 year old men, in my experience. Whether in SUVs, white vans or midlife crisis Aston Martins .

We have two elderly neighbours, both in their 80’s. One has given up driving because he realises his reactions are getting slower and he is mindful he might cause an accident. The other one has no intention to stop driving even though he has been advised by several neighbours that he should. He isn’t safe behind the wheel and regular hits fences etc. His reactions are very slow indeed and several of the neighbours have reported him to 101 for driving erratically and in a manner likely to cause danger or damage. Yet NOTHING has been done! I swear that one day his car will take out our fence and his car will end up parked in my lounge!

@TorridAntelope

Can't wait for you to be over 80 LOL.

Of course YABU. It is largely dependent on each individual. I know some perectly competent 85-90 y.o. drivers, and some people in their 70s who should have surrendered their driving licence several years ago.

Some people in rural areas would be utterly isolated without their car/being able to drive, so the idea that people should just not drive after their 80th birthday is ludicrous.

Also, plenty of younger folk are worse drivers, so maybe everyone should be re-tested every 5 years! Be careful what you wish for!

My 82 year mum lives rurally, no bus routes within mobility scooter range. She knows she will have to move once she gives up driving. That would be the state picking up the bill years earlier then.

Clearly there are some who are menaces and shouldn’t be on the road. I remember this case for example:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53269692.amp

but a lot of 80 year olds are fine so a blanket ban would be discriminatory. I think more rigorous medicals and a compulsory test would be better.

Exactly. Can you imagine if someone had taken the test to operate any other piece of machinery that could kill in the wrong hands three, four or five times and still kept failing? We’d all be saying “For heaven’s sake, give it up; you don’t know what you’re doing and it’s dangerous”.

Someone starts a thread saying they’ve failed their driving test five times and are considering giving up? It’s “Nooo, keep at it, you can do it!! It’s a life skill!”

It can be very hard to convince someone it’s time to stop driving, particularly when they are developing dementia. How many families have resorted to hiding the keys or saying the car’s still in for repairs. The GP is no help here.

So there definitely should be a regular medical check. And I’d favour a mini driving test too.

They may cause not cause a large proportion of accidents (because of few short journeys and slow speed), but that doesn’t mean it’s not a problem.